I see topless women frequently here, even downtown sometimes. Its not that rare of a sight.

But yeah, In America I think it's still illegal in just about every state. At any rate it always is going to be taken out of context, as I said earlier. Best not to include it by default.


Well if seeing a naked person is instantly sixual to you, then yes, it would hurt.

Not to come off high and mighty here, but nudity is not always about six, and if thats the way it's going to be seem in-game (and it will be, by many, many people) then I doubt they'll include it, because that's not necessarily what the game is about.

Games and internet weren't so popular yet when Daggerfall was released. Today the less kids adding "teabagging victims" and "big boobs" etc. game videos to Youtube the better.

I want the game to have mature themes to make the game world appear more real, but I'd keep full nudity out of the vanilla game.


Edit: I agree that six and nudity are two different things. We Finns are always nvde in our saunas, and when going to swim to a lake next to our summer cottages. I've heard the Americans are nvde phobic even inside family. True?

Because people are ignorant prudes, that's why. Some people just flip their [censored] when they see nudity, then go back to watching a movie where someone gets stabbed repeatedly in the face and think that's A-OK! But not nudity, no sir.

I don't see a problem with a little topless here and there. I live in the US and see topless girls all the time, just not in places you would see it EU. e.g, rock/punk shows, life drawing class, spring break, etc.

That's true and something I never understood.
Looks like people prefer to watch a crime happening,than something natural that they also watch in real life.
Weird situation if you ask me.

PEGI is much less strict regarding nudity than ESRB. In Europe the uncensored version of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrenheit_(video_game) got a 16+ rating, while the North American version the nudity was censored to not get an AO rating. While pretty much all violent games get an 18+ rating from PEGI (which really shouldn't be compared to the AO rating as 18+ is very common and still sold in stores).

PEGI isn't something that stores are required to follow by law either, it's only a recommendation for parents.

They've begun cracking down on this kind of thing, really... which in truth... sort've makes me sad.

I mean, what kind of sociopathic little bastards are we trying to breed here in the States? We set six and sixuality up on display in every damn window, billboard, and television set... but then we make it out to be this distant unattainable thing (even that which isn't gratuitous or tastelessly pormographic). And then, when kids and teenagers hit the prime of their developmental years and begin asking about these things... instead of answering them straightforwardly, we flood their head with lies and idiocy... and then drown their brains in violence hoping that that will keep them complacent until we're no longer responsible for them.

I may not have finished my psychology degree, but I'm pretty sure that that... isn't healthy.

Oh, but at least the ESRB doesn't discriminate. They won't sell extraordinarily VIOLENT media to kids, either.


What we end up with is a growing mass of answer-less, sixually frustrated youth who know that they can't go to their advlts for answers, realizing that they are being sheltered into oblivion, who go out and experiment on their own in everything from six, to drugs, to fighting, to God-only-knows-what...

... while their parents, ignorant as sin and twice as damned to blame as ever, throw up their arms in confusion.

Not only have we hand-made these troubled kids, but then we parade them around on display across the television. We show them at their worst and their weakest, stumbling around as they grasp for some sense of the world around them, scripting their lives and turning their plight into entertainment.

But no.

You can't have nudity or six or anything advlt in a video game. That's crossing a line.

Public television? Sure. Cable? Tons of it.

But a game?

Games are kids' toys. Things for children to play with. Can't have that... now can we? It would break the status quo and upset the hyper religious six is sacred crowd. And we can't do -both-... just think of the backlash! You can either snub the church and svck up to the parent, or snub the parent and svck up to the church. You can't snub them both... or you're going to incite riots!

And we wonder why kids snap and go off the deep end, drinking... drugs... six... killing each other.

It's being bred in by incompetent policies which fail to actually -address- the problem, which is that our children are human. They're going to have the same thoughts, urges, and temptations as their advlt counterparts the older they get... and we're going to just keep trying to cram them into that same idyllic little 'Youthful Angel" mold until eventually they shatter it.

And then we'll make a Reality TV show about it.

Gotta love America.


That's why there won't be nudity.

For the first twelve hours of its release, anyways.

There you haz it. A wider audience.

You would make a good parent.
This isn't only true in america its true everywhere else my good sir, and i still just a kid noticed this 1 year ago. among other things with how advlts don't seem to realize how kids are REALLY supposed to be raised. kids NEED freedom, without freedom they can't learn things the hard way and without learning the hard way they'll always check to see if fire still burns. if they ask you something or you can tell they're wondering about something, just tell them the harsh cold truth "My little girl, if you're wondering alone at streets at night theres a good chance you'll meet some very bad people who will do some very bad things to you." don't tell them "My little girl, don't you ever go wondering alone in streets at night!!!" its not a robot thats following orders is it?

basically make sure not to leave any question on the subject unanswered. cus i'm sure the child understands the word "Very bad" means "Something you don't want to happen or something you don't want to know"

Actually, most body mods for Oblivion DO give players a permanent underwear option. And in any case, it makes absolutely no sense and would be quite unfair to rate games for content in mods. Because the mods are not pat of the official game as it was made by Bethesda, and not everyone is going to use them. Those who do use them do so strictly out of their own personal choice, and in fact a sizable portion of the audience wouldn't even be able to get mods even if they wanted to. Rating the game for mods would be unfair to Bethesda because the game's rating would be determined by things entirely outside of their control, and very misleading to potential audiences and parents considering buying the game for their children, because they might look at the rating, see mention of nudity, and decide they don't want their children to play this, even though they would not be showing nudity to their children because there's actually no nudity in the game. And players who get the game expecting to see nudity because the rating claims it's in the game may be surprised to find it's nowhere to be seen. If you're going to do that, you might as well ban all minors from using the internet because they might visit porm sites while you're at it Besides, ESRB can't possibly account for all mods that are made for all games, they might as well just say all games that can possibly be modded are pormography and unsuitable for anyone under 18 years of age and be done with it if they're going to rate games for mods.

And while Daggerfall had nudity, its graphics were considerably less detailed than modern games, so maybe pixelated, 2D nipbles wouldn't be considered as bad as highly detailed 3D ones. Not to mention what kind of content is considered acceptable in games may change with time. Maybe when Daggerfall was released, no one would mind its nudit, but maybe things have changed now, especially since video games seem to be getting more attention as a mainstream entertainment medium than they did in earlier years, which is a very natural result of the interest in games expanding. We must also consider that Bethesda's own policies may change with changes in management, so maybe even if Bethesda could do so without fear of any negative concequences, they would still not have included nudity in the more recent Elder Scrolls games.

And I think we can assume that there will not be any nudity in Skyim, because it seems like that would not be seen as acceptable in the US, and since Bethesda is an American company, they're obviously going to keep business in their own country in mind while making games. And Bethesda does not choose how the public will respond to nudity, so complaining about it here will do nothing. Bethesda can only take it into account when deciding what they want to put in the game, and considering the matter, I think leaving nudity up to modders is the wiser choice here.



It wouldn't hurt the game I think as long as it's done appropriately and doesn't turn the game into pormography, but it MIGHT hurt sales and Bethesda's reputation if the media gets an excuse to act like Skyrim is the intercarnation of all that is evil. I mean, look at that scandal involving Mass Effect where it was made out to be a [censored] simulator, all because of one six scene that wasn't even explicit.

Hah, that's a good one.

Oh you were serious? No, no they don't.

yeah they do, at most retailers like gamespot, target, walmat and various others. they're supposed to because it's store policy.

I'm sorry, I have to disagree with you. I started playing Morrowind when I was quite young- that wouldn't have been possible with nudity. Ditto all the kids playing OB right now. The fact is, nudity is easy enough to mod in for those who want it- but the vast majority of players do not care. I don't want nudity in my games regardless, and frankly, it'd be pretty unrealistic to be running around with no underwear in full plate mail. I mean, think of the chafing.

So I'm gonna vote 'no' on the whole nudity debate, but thanks for a laugh.

I guess I don't see the point of having it in the game, this is not an X-rated game and does not feature six as a core component of the game.

All nudity would do is offend many parents, who would complain and en-mass could cause problems for Bethesda - so why add it?

There are lots of avenues for kids these days to get plenty of nudity on-line, and the modding community will add all that stuff in anyway without causing Bethesda a head-ache, rating issues or legal issues.

The question to me is more of, "Why add it in?" It really has nothing to do with Skyrim. Besides, its going to be COLD! Who in their right mind would get nakked unless under a bear-skin covered bed anywhay?!?!

This, this is it. The bolded part is something I despise more than words can describe, this way of thinking needs to die before it does more harm than it has already. That goes for any form of censorship by the way, censorship is a crime if you ask me.

That would be fine if we parents were not legally responsible for what the kids do, and like it or not alot of folks in this country are quite conservative about nudity and six. I myself am not, and I allow my 14-year old daughter to see what she wants to see - but I would NOT want my 9-year old son watching folks get it on with abandon.

And I consider myself to be a very liberated parent, but I know alot of folks who go wild-crazy-angry over this stuff. As Bethesda is a business and they absolutely have to be concerned about what people will try to do to Them if the games they make become controversial. It is not Censorship, its called "Parenthood", and until your in my shoes and have kids of your own, you really can't understand it. Being a parent means teaching our kids the ways of the world and exposing them to all of this stuff At The Right Time. I'm sorry but not Everything is meant to be thrust at our kids as soon as it is available. By this logic, when my kids were 5 years old I should have bought them pormography - "because it is their right"? Sorry, but no parent will Ever agree to that kind of logic.

It's one thing to be against censorship. Its quite another thing to face teachers, councilors, deans and other parents at school meetings and PTA when your kids are talking-it-up at school about how they see nakked women in the video games their kids get to play. Like it or not in this society we parents are responsible for what our kids see, and there are limits as to how far we can go with sixuality at a young age.

Again, nudity is not necessary in Skyrim - it would add nothing to the game and potentially harm sales if it pushed-up the rating. I'm quite grateful for Bethesda's stance on this, as it means my 9-year old can play the game right along with my wife, daughter and I. It would svck if I had to tell Connor that he couldn't play the game and have fun while everyone else in the house was doing so! As it is, Bethesda makes it possible for all of us to play and I greatly appreciate their stance on nudity and six.

Daggerfall was ok because it was mainly obscured because of the graphics and low detail but in the modern gaming world that's a no go zone

Seems like you're taking my argument to an extreme there but okay. No, of course you should not buy your 5 year old porm because it's "their right" (Something I never said by the way, or at least never meant to convey). Children do not have the right to anything they want, but they do have a right to be properly prepared for real life, within reason obviously. A 5 year old has no business watching porm, a 5 year old wouldn't understand it anyway, a 14 year old on the other hand is a different matter, you see what I'm getting at here?

Now begfore you jump to conclusions, no, I am not saying porm helps prepare kids for real lfie, that would be stupid, and I try not to be. However, if I found out my fictional 15 year old kid was watching porm, I would not be urneasonable about it. I would not block his internet connection or flip my [censored] and try to get it banned. I would calmly explain to my fictional child "Son...there is some truly [censored] up [censored] online, regular porm is something I can easily live with."

True, I agree that it is not practical for the player character to be nvde. But for instance, I do not see it being a problem if a young maiden NPC takes off her top as long as it's done tastefully and within the context of a quest.

Yes but none of this explains in any rational sense why Bethesda should add nudity to Skyrim. It would bring no value to the game, and would certainly cost Bethesda by forcing the ESRB rating up - thus making it un-available to thousands or tens-of-thousands of kids.

Like it or not, nudity IS the line that has been drawn in the sand by society, and its a very big deal when a game or TV show or magazine crosses it.

You called this censorship, I did not.

It may or may not raise the rating. Look at Dante's Inferno. Depends on context.
But no matter the rating, one thing its going to do is raise controversy and I don't think Bethesda wants that.
I guess killing people in gruesome ways are more child friendly than [censored]. srry bewbs

Anyway we're talking about 17yr olds people. 17!

There is no way to compare Daggerfall nudity and Skyrim nudity, Daggerfall has pixelated Bob-the-builders, Skyrim is high def graphics.

But it's true mods add this anyway, but I don't feel like it is necessary. What great is it to see orcish manly-sticks? None at all, I'm telling you.

who gives a flying [censored] about a naked chick or guy whatever you fancy, i just care about the important [censored] like story and gameplay

No more unrealistic than having undergarments permanently attached to a character's body if you ask me, and in any case, that issue would be addressed by allowing the wearing of clothes under armor. If you're going to have nudity in you're game, it should be equal oportunity if you ask me. If NPCs can be nvde, the player should have that option too, though certainly it wouldn't be necessary to use it, also, if nudity is in the game, there should be both male and female nudity, none of that ridiculous "Women can be nvde but men can't" nonsense. I'm not offended by the sight of male nudity, no reason why I should be, seeing as I see it every time I have a bath. And there's no reason why nudity should be limited to females, except if it's used as fanservice and you're intended demographic is male audiences.

Myself, I don't feel that nudity would hurt the Elder Scrolls, as a game. Indeed, I play both Morrowind and Oblivion with it, thanks for mods, but it's not high on the list of things I feel the need to see in Skyrim by the default, especially since it's easy to mod in. And while I don't usually like that mentallity, in this case, I think it's pretty reasonable, since we're talking about something not everyone wants to see and there are good reasons not to have it in the game.



Indeed, and complaining about it here won't change anything. And because of this perspective, it's safer for Bethesda to avoid the issue, and I don't fault them for that. I don't like censorship either, not because I feel six or violence or anything like that is appropriate for children, or indeed is something even advlts necessarily want to see. But because I believe it should be up to creators to decide what they want to show and audiences to decide what they want to see, or in the case of children, it is their parents job to decide if they should be allowed to see it or not. It is not the government's job to control what people are allowed to see, but like I said, complaining about it here won't change anything, and when it comes to censorship, the blame rests on those who censor, not the ones who are censored.



Some happen to feel otherwise on the "bring no value to the game thing", I agree on this. Because it would help Bethesda to create a believable world, if used appropriately (In other words, used where it would make sense, and not just thrown around randomly for the sake of fan service.) because nudity is a part of life. We may try to censor it when we can, but its existence still cannot be denied, we are born nvde, and we often get nvde as part of every day life. If a fictional world is to be believable, it should acknowledge this. That's not to say all games need to have nudity to be believable, just as not all games need gore, but if I'm playing a fantasy game and encounter a situation where nudity would obviously make sense yet it's not shown to keep it safe for the kids, it's going to feel a little unrealistic. Still, if Bethesda disagrees on that, I certainly won't feel that my game is ruined by the lack of nudity. Nudity in fiction is a tool, not all works need to have it, but some works can be enhanced by its presence.

Though it would raise the game rating, but so would violence and blood, which Skyrim is already going to have, and Bethesda expects it to be rated M anyway. The main issue here is not so much the rating, but the controversy that might follow, if the media decides to latch onto the game's nudity as further "proof" that video games are "corrupting our youth", and probably blow the whole issue out of proportion by making Skyrim out to be interactive pormography, still, for that reason, I don't fault Bethesda for choosing not to have nudity.



I find it rather silly that you felt the need to ask this question, maybe you should consider that if someone felt the need to start a thread about it, someone obviously DOES care.

"Daggerfall had nudity... why not morrowind, oblivion and skyrim?"

Easy- Daggerfall was made by a fairly young, "up-and-coming" small company willing to take risks and push the boundaries of the gaming public's comfort zones. Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim were/are being made by a "mature" company- much larger, much more business-savvy, and much more interested in pushing the boundaries of stockholders' Return on Investment by making safe "mass-appeal" games. :shrug: