I have known about Daggerfall's graphics for a while and I recently downloaded it from Bethesda's site, and it works decently(not great, but decently). I like Daggerfall quite a bit. It is a detailed and complex game that should be what TES V is like. While comparing Daggerfall to Morrowind and Oblivion, some questions formed in my mind. Daggerfall is 10 years older than Oblivion, but Oblivion's graphics are amazing and Daggerfall's aren't even good(for this time), but it was only 10 years. How did graphics improve so significantly in that time, and how will those graphics continue to develop? Can we expect graphics in 2016 (another 10 years from Oblivion) to be as improved as graphics were from Daggerfall to Oblivion? Also, why aren't Morrowind and Oblivion as complex as Daggerfall. BOTH of them seemed simplified when compared to Daggerfall. I still love both Morrowind and Oblivion, but I want Elder Scrolls game to be as complex as Daggerfall. What happened to seasons, holidays, and the actual summoning of Daedric Princes? What about owning ships?

You could also fight while mounted on a horse...

Graphics in the 90's evolved very very rapidly, more-so than they do today. In 2016, graphics will be much better, yes, but they won't be drastically different than Oblivion. It would have to take many more years for there to be a point at which the contrast between modern graphics and Oblivion is as large as the contrast between the graphics of Daggerfall and Oblivion.

New engines lead to new limitations... Daggerfall was procedurally generated, rather than hand-crafted, making bulk data such as landmass, random quests, monster spawning, dungeon crafting, etc. very simple to program... As more development time is going into making graphics look nice (Not a bad thing), less is available for "throwing in" large quantity bulk, such as generic quests, etc...

No, the better the graphics becomes, the smaller the step is. Besides, do we really want to see blackheads on NPCs?

Still, does that excuse the missing depth, the lack of more possible skills, weapons, and forms of transport? What about the true role-playing qualities of the game, and ships? Are ships really that much harder to add, or just horseback riding? Daggerfall has so many advantages over Morrowind and Daggerfall, and I don't understand how better graphics should truly have that effect on a game's depth or how complex it is. Daggerfall is just a completely different experience from Morrowind and Oblivion. People say Morrowind is complex and that Oblivion dumbed down everything, but it seems that Morrowind was the beginning of the dumbing down process. Daggerfall is a masterpiece, and it should be what TES games are like, but Morrowind and Oblivion are not nearly as complex, varied, or deep as Daggerfall is. The problem is, the graphics do bother me a bit. It is a great game, but I want to see a similar game with good graphics, better animations, and better sounds. Daggerfall is fun, but I can't get as immersed in it as I want to be.

I think Morrowind was dumbed down too, and a lot of people were dissapointed.
However they definitely improved on some things greatly in Morrowind, which is why some people prefer it, the same with Oblivion.

Though I hope it is, I doubt the next TES will be like Daggerfall, let's face it, it'd be very tough to make, and I don't think such a game would do well with the current gaming generation, and Bethesda needs to make money, which I respect.
I guess you can't get used to Daggerfall because you aren't used to these graphics. You can always hope for DaggerXL to be finished I guess or play a few older games, to help you get used to it.

I'm used to old graphics, just not from a first-person view. TES games just seem like the type of games that need good graphics to truly be immersive. Perhaps that's just my opinion, but Oblivion is breathtaking with its graphics, and so I believe graphics are important to TES series, contrary to some "hardcoe" RPG beliefs. I know Bethesda needs to make money, and I love Oblivion, but I don't see why a gamer wouldn't want TES series to more complex, and definitely more varied. It makes no sense to me. The only reason why Daggerfall should be hard for a present-day non-hardcoe TES fan to get into is because of the graphics, animations, and sounds. If TES V was more varied, more complex, and more based on character skill, I don't think it should be hard to play at all. Of course, since I love that type of style, I don't understand how others don't like it, but I do understand that for some inexplicable reason, people don't. For some reason, present-day gamers generally prefer blowing stuff up with little thought and want instantly powerful characters with no story. :shrug:

:turtle:

With that said, I really don't think Daggerfall was mind-rapingly complex. From my experiences, it feels, in many ways, like a casual game.

That isn't to say I didn't like it.

A quick note about the graphics: I don't mind them, myself, but I'd beat a begger to death (with a cane) for further draw distance.

Well, let's just say I'm hardcoe then.
I can see why graphics would be important to some people though, they do make the experience a lot more enjoyable.

@Porridge: Look at the screens towards the bottom of http://daggerxl.wordpress.com/, it'll be a long while til it's playable yet I think, but I find it exciting none the less.

I can survive with older graphics, and I still like many older games, but a first-person, real-time game with bad graphics just doesn't seem right to me. When reading a book in an Elder Scrolls game, do you picture the setting in Daggerfall's graphics, or realistic graphics? I'm guessing realistic graphics, and so actually creating TES world with good graphics and making the second life that is an Elder Scrolls game actually come to life is great. I'm sure that every Elder Scrolls fan would be disappointed if TES V came out with Daggerfall's graphics. We have Daggerfall, and it is endless and deep while having its graphics, so I don't see why anyone would want an exact copy with the same graphics, and graphics just make a game more enjoyable, regardless of what types of games people like. Oblivion is just stunning, and to go back to older graphics in the next Elder Scrolls game just wouldn't go unnoticed, even among the hardcoe gamers. I am a hardcoe RPG gamer, and I can tolerate bad graphics for a good game, but for any gamer(even a hardcoe one) to say they would be perfectly fine if TES V had Daggefall's graphics or that graphics don't mean anything is just ludicrous.

I never meant at any point they should use Daggerfall's graphics in the new game, that would be stupid.
I meant that graphics aren't as important to the TES series to me, as other features. I was referring to the current TES games.
If you were referring to future games by TES series, then I misunderstood (though I'd want them to have better graphics to maintain the serie's good reputation, more than for personal enjoyment).

I still enjoy Daggerfall, and many other people do too, despite worse graphics, and that's the point I was trying to get across.
I wouldn't play Daggerfall or Morrowind if I thought graphics were too important, I play them for the reasons you mentioned.
I respect your views on the importance on graphics, please respect mine too.

Indeed, for example, in Oblivion the sneaking system is mature enough to actually be fun. That was not the case with Daggerfall or Morrowind. Each game in the series has their own weaknesses and strengths.

I wasn't referring to you, just some of the more ridiculous comments left by people about their opinions on graphics. I enjoy Daggerfall, but Oblivion is much easier to get immersed in. If Daggerfall had been made with Oblivion's graphics, I would be able to enjoy it much more. It is a great game, but imagine Daggerfall with Oblivion's graphics. That would definitely make the game more enjoyable. The only problem with that is that my computer isn't even good enough to run Morrowind, and it doesn't have a disk drive. Daggerfall has much of what I want in a game(although being randomly generated, Daggefall isn't always the most interesting and varied game, but there are many different items and I like that variety), but Oblivion has the graphics I want in a game. Anyway, I wasn't referring to you and I apologize if it seemed that way.

Anyway, I now have a few more questions, but I don't want this thread to be focused on them. I'm just wondering about these things. What is DaggerXL? Are there mods or a construction set for Daggerfall(I've heard there aren't)?

I agree with Freddo, but things like that are why I want to see Daggerfall's depth and item variety with Oblivion's graphics and animations.

Sorry about that then, I agree with you that better graphics would make Daggerfall better, and the next ES game will need better graphics.
There are a few old mods for Daggerfall, though it is a lot harder to make mods for. You can read the project description for DaggerXL http://daggerxl.wordpress.com/about/. Here is the http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1058120, the DaggerXL forums have some very interesting projects going on in there too. Like I said it'll be a long time before it's finished, and ages before it might get to a graphics level near Oblivion.

Mix the best parts of the ES games together, and it would be brilliant, though that'd be setting the bar a little high for the devs.

Actually, it's impossible since so many are contradictory...

Considering that my computer can't run Morrowind, is DaggerXL going to be too much of an improvement? I'm afraid my computer might not be able to run Daggerfall with DaggerXL. It's already been 14 since Daggerfall's release and there is a project to get it to look better, but it's still not close to completion? Also, what do you mean get to Oblivion's level? Is someone trying to recreate the entire game?

One more thing, that combination of all TES games would need to be for the ps3 for me to be able to enjoy it. This computer is horrible.

Like I said before if its referring about the future TES; they (and I) prefer that the content of the game should more focus this time around and not heavily on graphic. We don't care for graphic, but not to a point it be like that of Daggerfall.


Its a new engine on recreating Daggerfall and refining it. It requires the Daggerfall, of course. One can look in one of these:

http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1058120
http://daggerxl.wordpress.com/about/

EDIT: Miss'd Dirnae's post. Dam I type slow.

My main issue with Daggerfall is the random generating of content. And it was way too big to be generated (Didn't I just see that weird looking mushroom a few hundred times already?). Great story and everything, but MW and OB smash it to pieces under the terms of "game."

@scow: Well, you'd have to figure out how to decide what's best, and what features to use or remove, eg. which combat system is best (Oblivion, duh).
Maybe some people wouldn't be pleased about a few choices, but with a good amount of thought put into it, it'd be a damn good game.

As I said though, hoping for a game which uses the best (or should I say most popular) features of each is too optimistic.
And maybe this wouldn't be for the best anyway, I mean I'd definitely like Bethesda to experiment with the next game too, like they have in the past.
Sticking to old features and rules would only make the series stagnate. A new game with new features would, imo, be best.

@seti: I remember hearing some talk of a texture replacer, and also of possibly adding 3d creatures in Daggerfall, and with a new engine, a lot of possibilities for modding the game will open.
Check out the DaggerXL forums for more info. It looks like at first it'll be easily playable on PC, though idk whether you'd enjoy it, until more changes have been made.
If DaggerXL is finished and becomes popular, I'm sure the graphics will be revamped. Also remember, though it's been 14yrs since it's release, DaggerXL hasn't been around too long at all (it was announced last june I think, though there had been some work done beforehand).

You'll have enough time to buy a new computer before it gets towards completion.

When you think about it Mobiles/Cell phones at the start of 90s used to be the size of bricks but by the start of the 00s they were able to fit in your pocket, had a screen, etc. Even now at the start of a new decade we have phones that connect to the internet, take videos/pictures, have lots of games to play on.

Its human progress, when the next TES 5 comes out then the graphics will be better but not in the way it was from Oblivion to Daggerfall, the progression in the 90s was like the progression in 1800s except in the 90s it was electronical.

So, I've been playing Daggerfall. I'm playing a Dark Elf knight(bad idea?) because my favorite race, Imperial, isn't available and Dark Elves are my second favorite race. I wasn't picking my character's race based on skills, I just like Dark Elves and knights, but I'm hoping it's not an impossible combination. Based on Dark Elves in Morrowind and Oblivion, I don't think it's a bad combination, but is it bad in Daggerfall? Also, is there a reason why I can't wear helmets? It says my class prevents it, but since when can't a knight wear a helmet? UESP doesn't say anything about knights and helmets. I turned a corner in Privateer's Hold and was startled by a bat. The graphics actually aren't bothering me and I'm getting used to the controls(after changing the keys for looking up and down). However, my obsession with finding all the loot I can before leaving is bothering me. I want to make sure I explore every part of Privateer's Hold, but I'm worried it's too big and it will take me too long, or it is a never-ending maze and while I'm not getting lost in it, I'm not going to know when I find everything. I actually don't like dungeon diving, so I'm hoping I will still be able to enjoy the game with as little dungeon diving as possible(I've read Daggerfall's dungeons are massive labyrinths and that doesn't sound too good to me). Dungeons can be fun, but I don't like getting lost in them. So, aside from me hating my obsessions of getting more loot, I like the game and the graphics don't bother me. Whenever I fight something, I just wildly move my mouse across the screen. Daggerfall is actually a little challenging. So far, I've been able to kill anything I find, but I've died and had to reload before, but I'm only in the tutorial dungeon, so I still have a lot to see. I can't wait to finally get out of Privateer's Hold and see the outside world. I love the variety in this game, and the fact that my character isn't able to just kill anything. I'm going to actually feel like I'm getting stronger as I level up. Just how powerful can a knight get in this game?

edit: Nevermind what I said before, modifiers do not function correctly, so choosing your race is purely cosmetic.

Knights are forbidden from wearing the weaker armor types, you might have to wait til you start getting +3 protection helmets.
Weak armor is worthless later on anyway.

Dungeons are very large, there is http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Cheats#Teleporting_to_Dungeon_Exits if you get lost though, so don't worry too much about it (I use this reguarly, backtracking through dungeons can get very annoying).

A knight can get very powerful, and their immunity to paralysis will save your character a lot of trouble.
My Nordic knight could easily kill most creatures later, though they can't wear daedric, so try and some good artifacts later on. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Intrinsic_Classes, it's where I got most of that info from, so it's worth a read. Save regularly, you can meet some very nasty creatures early on (such as an Ancient Lich :cold:).

Also, are there any non-Daedric artifacts? As part of my role-play, my character is a kind, noble warrior who worships the Nine and most of the Daedric Princes seem evil from a mortal point of view, so he doesn't trust them.

I have to go to school now, but when I come back, I'm going to play Daggerfall for hours.

There are plenty



There is an artifact page on the UESP site, though it's funner to look for the weapons yourself.