I consider myself an accomplished Daggerfall player. I've made and levelled several characters in the course of many years, and completed the MQ lots of times... Now I was thinking of something different.

When I play the other games in the series, like Morrowind for instance, magic is not an inherent necessity because everything is small and near. You may get an extra time around and there are admittedly a couple of rough spots, but nothing prevents you from reaching your destination and doing the thing in due time. Daggerfall is different - namely, I've never been able to succeed with a completely non-magic character. At best, I always had to employ enchantments and the like.

Now I'm trying set my final and greatest achievement - complete the MQ with a non-magical combat or stealth character. But that's easier said than done! I was just going about in a dungeon with vast underwater sections, and my suspicions that the quest target was deep down there only grew as I explored it. Yet...!

How do you manage it?

a good swimming skill.

I mean, the whole thing. I'm still too much used to levitation, water breathing and the likes... I know I need a character with good jumping, swimming skills and the like, but character skill is not the issue here - it's player skill.

I always play Daggerfall without using magical items or magic at all. I simply don't like using magical items or magic.
So if I know that my quest target inside a dungeon is located somewhere where I have to go underwater and that I will never have the breath to cross, I'll scrap the quest or try to find a way around. My character can't do it by himself so there's no need to push further.

Too bad if it's Anticlere's richest merchant's 4th cousin or the banker's 10th daughter. I tried my best.

I finished the main quest without using magic as well.

~_^ With no levitation in Mantella Crux either?

It's been a long time I finished the main quest. At least to my memory I didn't use magical items to provide levitation. Aren't there switches/activators to provide levitation when needed?

If not, then I must have used magical undies of venom spitting that give levitation.

There was a six part video of a non-magic character completing the Mantellan-Crux

Running a zero magic, zero enchant, fists-only character and enjoying it. If I had to rank the most useful elements in descending order for this build, it would be the following:

• Speed
  
• Innate immunities
  
• Agility
  
• H2H
  
• Critical Strike
  
• Luck
  
• Endurance

Hand-to-hand [OR your weapon of choice] + critical strike skill is more important than strength. Strength can wait. Agility is really important for dodging enemy swings and landing your own swings, and this also trumps strength. Speed allows you to control the battlefield, and well... you just do stuff quicker. So as far as I'm concerned, it's the absolute most important thing.

If you want a greater challenge, take no immunities... they can be considered lame. But you will then need willpower. My character's willpower is something like 18. Being immune to everything, it doesn't really come into play. You'd also rely more on your armor, indirectly, since it cuts damage from other sources. My character just wears iron because I thought it http://i51.tinypic.com/294qihv.jpg. I think the immunities are fun, though.


I haven't reached the Mantellan Crux yet. I don't think I've gotten a character all the way to the Mantellan Crux in thirteen years. I hope to have the patience to run through with this character, though, and see how it goes.

That was me I don't know if those videos are still uploaded anywhere, but I still have the files with commentary somewhere on this computer.

Yea, you can totally do the MQ without magic or enchanted items. What you need, more than anything, is a good climbing skill and an understanding of how climbing works--namely, two items: 1. that you can sidestep while climbing to fall in that direction (so you can climb up the N wall of a shaft and sidestep into a passage to the E or W) and 2. that you can start climbing from a fall. A good jumping skill is no laughing matter, also.

As for water and swimming... well, I still just try to avoid it as much as possible, just because I find swimming to be very slow even with a good skill.

hey, pleased to meet the hero :wavey:

Oh yes, I remember those days! Our best computer was a 486DX, and that was long ago in a galaxy far away. LOL

Thank you for your advice. Especially your character seems very interesting, Tristan.

There's one thing else, though, that I noticed... The laws of gravity in the game are weird. For one, a fall is never completely vertical even if you're in a stationary position. There are those BIG stairways in those big halls, right? I once tried jumping from a corridor into a stairway, but instead of falling on the stairway it was as if I had flied a good more; I ended up landing on the ground and killing myself. Ouch.

It seems to me that there could be a number of different definitions to the phrase "sans magicka". I mean "without using magic" could get pretty hard-core. For example:

1) Teleporters are magic. There are any number of quests that could not be completed without "using" teleporters, including the Painting quest, which means that the MQ could never be done.

2) Potions duplicate/activate magic spells. A hard-core definition of sans magicka would mean precluding potions.

3) Most Special Advantages would also have to be excluded, especially immunities. They're even more magical than potions and are essentially "Constant Effect" magic spells.


Just for the record: When I play/think "sans magicka" it means no spell book and no enchanted items, period. I'll certainly use teleporters, potions, and every Special Advantage I can.
Actually, about the only thing I haven't been able to find a way around is magically locked doors.Fortunately there are very, very few quests that absolutely require opening one.

Yeah it will take some work figuring out what wild parabola the game sends me on after climbing.

At least I can take advantage of one of Murphy's Laws in Daggerfall (if you travel to a walled city at a "reckless" pace, you will always arrive at night), which gives me plenty of chances to practice climbing in the normal course of things.

Nonsense. Just because the city gates are open doesn't mean you can't still scale the walls and go roof-jumping

As for definitions, I played that sans-magicka means no magic originating from the player or their inventory. So no spells, magical items, or potions. Dungeon devices, such as teleporters and levitation statues, are fair game (in fact, the have to be, or else you really can't finish the Crux). As for player advantages, I say go nuts; that may contradict my previous statement, but seriously, you need something to balance the scales! I'm not talking about snagging full immunities to any and all magic, but regeneration and rapid healing are vital since you're probably gunning for all the health you can get.

Given how random potion acquisition tends to be, my non-magical characters are generally allowed to use potions.

SInce this topic deals with magic in some sort, can any1 pls tell me:

I want to be able to create a sword that has the ebony blade ability (drinks a little bit of enemies health on strike). but i dont want it to be gone after a dozen swings. Whats the best way to accomplish it? And since I tend to play stealthy characters (ie, I never choose magic skills as primary,major,minor), is there any way I can get access to Item Enchanting, as the only sources appear to be Mages Guild and Juliano's (so if I HAVE to be in either guild, do I have to have a skill in major or primary or minor)?

Generally I choose these skills: Long Blade, Critical, Dodge | Backstab, Stealth, Lockpick | Run, Jump, Climb, Swim, Medical, Pocket

I read somewhere that lockpicking kind of svcks in this game and I should actually ditch it for that magic school that deals with Open.

THX!

To get access to an enchanter you have to be 5th rank in either the Mages guild or Julianos. This requires 1 "required" skill to be 55 and another "required" skill to be 24. (To join a guild/temple you need a "required" skill to be 22). As far as I know none of these skills have to be primary/major/minor.
The "required" skills for the Mages guild are all magic skills. Julianos' "required" skills include 3 magic skills (1 of which is Mysticism for "open") plus Impish, Daedric, Shortblade, and Lockpicking.

OK - thx. When I read about requirements, I wasnt sure whether it was meant them to be among ur primary and so on. basically they have to be at a X % and thats it.