What did we lose?

We lost hundereds of bland looking carbon copy locations.

We lost wasting an hour or two rolling for stats in lew of a system that lets you put together the character you want in under 30 minutes.

We lost cardboard cut out npcs and replaced them with npcs that eat, sleep, and conversed with each other even if it is on a limited basis.

Don't get me wrong, theres some things I miss about Daggerfall, the robust character creation system that allowed for complete customization, the way it handled vampires and werewolves, the completely customizable spell maker and enchantment maker, the insane amount of stuff for your wardrobe, and I'll admit, the nudity was fun (though theres some great mods out there for that stuff if you still miss it in todays games).

But lets face it nostalgia aside, and for all the customization you could do, the game really had you interacting in a two dimensional world, where your interaction with npcs was reduced to buying and selling crap, taking randomly generated carbon copy quests, or asking someone for directions or the latest news, very little of which had no impact on the game whatsoever.

And we lost plenty of bugs too...

I just found out I cant finish the MQ on my main char and FIXSAVE wont help me. Funny how you can get four saves bugged at once

We lost 100's of bland looking locations? Have you been inside a Morrowind or Oblivion cave/fort/Ayelid ruin? 1/10th the number of puzzle pieces, meaning Daggerfall is a ton more varied in those huge dungeons than in the tiny MW one's or the 5 piece cookie cutter Oblivion one's! And the gameworld? varied towns empty of life in MW and lacking in voice actors in Oblivion. I get more immersed talking to NPC's in Daggerfall than ever I would with the repetitive talk of MW NPC's and in Oblivion talking to a priest who sounded just like the shopkeeper who sounded just like the guy I assassinated, andon an on.

We lost wasting an hour rolling for stats for an under 30 minute one? Well, that's what happens when you dumb down games and hand-hold, you take more of the detail out of gamer's hands. I expect it to take under 10 minutes for the next Elder Scrolls game, because I think it'll be closer to Mass Effect than it will Oblivion!

Cardboard cutout NPC's that don't sleep, etc? Did you not notice how few NPC's were in town's at 3am versus 3pm? So Daggerfall NPC's did sleep! They also conversed with each other - how many quests started with 'I have spoken to....'?! Given the bland conversations and the use of 5 voice actors it took about 2 hours to start finding the Oblivion NPC's annoying! And let's not even talk about how boring politically correct conversations are!

I got more immersed in Daggerfall and Morrowind than I ever did with Oblivion - until I added about 100 mods, like most PC gamers did. Comparing vanilla versions of all three games shows how much smaller, dumbed down and less entertaining Oblivion is. Daggerfall and Morrowind drag you in with a sophisticated main quest, Oblivion's is just terrible! Then the Guild Quests, where in Oblivion there is no requirements to join and even when you become the head of a guild, what do you get? Nothing!

So Oblivion, because of it's console influence was a disaster for PC gamers, and I really worry for the next Elder Scroll's game!!!

Your comments are typical comments of those gamers that put graphics above all others. It is because of gamers like that that we get the 'pretty' and 'shallow' games of today. But with the success of Stardock and Sins of a Solar Empire, the growth of indie gaming, the success of companies like GOG.com and the 10 million DOSBox downloads show that gamers are fed up with these pretty but boring games we get now. and are protesting by spending more and more time playing retro PC titles - like Daggerfall! Think about it,if we had 2 or 3 Daggerfall quality RPG's with,say, STALKER level graphics, there wouldn't be half the demand for games like Daggerfall - but the fact we don't get games like this in quantity or quality, we go back to our old games that may not have the graphics, but have the gameplay in spades!. The threads that have popped up all over the web, the way Bethesda servers couldn't cope initially with the download demand and the general web hype about a 15 year RPG says it all really, doesn't it?

uh, weren't you the guy who was frustated with Daggerfall gameplay a few days ago?

Holy crap. I thought I was unrivalled in Daggerfall devotion, but this is just silly. Seriously, the idea of "rolling" for your stats was just shamelessly taken from the early idea that TES was a visual and interactive proxy for an elaborate DnD setting (same with the useless tavern drinks). Nobody misses it...

I don't spend an hour rolling for stats in Daggerfall, though it often would take me a long time shuffling skills, advantages, and disadvantages around in Daggerfall's custom class maker.

Me too. I think it might be cool if DaggerXL can give you a "confirmation" screen on your character design (like in Morrowind and Oblivion) when exiting Privateer's Hold, in case you want to change anything at the last second. There's so many times where I've made my way through the dungeon and then said, "ah hell, maybe I should swap Critical Strike to Primary Skills and bring Stealth down to Major Skills". Then the entire fiasco begins again.

I've been mucking around in Daggerfall, and want to start a "real character" now. Give me tips!! Please?

But some questions....

Magic. Need it? I've noticed that at the start, I can custom make my character to have the following: darkness powered magery x2 (I can take less ability in daylight AND no ability in daylight), dito for light magery, and inability to regen spell points. This nets me some huge disadvantages, allowing me to load up on advantages and make myself immune to almost everything, 30 hp per level, expertise in something-or-rather, etc. The downside is, I can't use magic at all, which excludes me from the mages guild. The upside is, I am immune to magic in all it's forms, and am allowed to tank my Int and Wil at the start down to 10 each, allowing me to pump my other stats nicely. Good idea?

How dangerous is magic? I like not dying, and by looking at the monster list on UESP, it seems like high level monsters like to make me die from magic. Can I reliably avoid this with enchanted items or magic, or should I make myself immune?

If magic is dangerous, should I use it? From Arena, I like the idea of aborbing spells based on your Int and Wil. At creation, I can take triple spellpoints, absorb magic, and some other advantages, and balance things out by loading up on on critical weakness to EVERYTHING magical (fire, shock, frost, etc.). My plan, get that Int and Wil up to 100 each ASAP so that I can absorb everything I am critically weak against. Good idea?

Next question, can I load up on similar picks at creation, or is each one seperate? For instance, I want to take forbidden weapon axe and blunt, but do I need to use a seperate pick for each one, or is there a way to get both at once? Probably "no", huh?

The above questions aside, what's a good "starting character" for a first time through. So far, I've only mucked around, but I want to actually do the game now. What are good skills, and what are the crappy skills to take a picks?

Alteration vs. Lockpicking? With alteration, I can get the open spell right? But that needs magic. Lockpicking doesn't even need lockpicks. Which is better to take?

Race pick. High Elves get a free Immunity to paralysis, which is HUGE, but what about the other races. What does the Redguard "good with weapons" mean? Is that the same as taking multiple expertise choices in class creation? What it be redundant to make a Redguard and take a weapon expertise choice, the same way it is redundant to make a High Elf and take paralysis immunity?

I've also had some dialogue troubles. Is dialogue in this game just not that informative or branching? I joined the temple of Kanareth, and couldn't even ask the people in the Temple what we were all about. Kanareth is what? Neither Kanereth or The Nine Devines were even present as dialogue choices. It was more like, your skills are high! You're a member! Huh?

Before that, I got a guest from Lord B. (something) in Daggerfall castle. I had to deliver some item to Lady M. (something) in some town. Easy money. However, upon wandering around Daggerfall castle, and consequently getting in trouble with the guards later on, I met the very same Lady M. (something). Here's the conversation, roughly.

Me: Can you tell me about Lady M. (something).
Lady M. (something): Not that I know of.
Me:
Lady M. (something): I try not to spread rumors.
Me:
Lady M. (something): Since I have nothing nice to say...
Me:

Later, I delivered her the item in the other town and she thanked me for my discretion, gave me some money, and vanished. She was also in a house that I couldn't ask for directions to in that down. Some Bukinghouse Residence or other. I had to go to each house and use "info mode" to find it. Is there an easier way? Was it because my peronality was not so high that she acted like she didn't know/like herself in the first encounter?

A few other wacky things. I've noticed that I can start a new game, and sometimes begin with negative health. Normal glitch or creepy glitch?

Mmm, that's all I can remember for now. Sorry for the long post, but any answers would be appreicated.

I still am, to the extent I have had to play a character the game wants to play, not the character I wanted to play. You can enjoy Daggerfall, like I am, with constant cheating and recognising this is okay because of game design. The character and stats I have in Daggerfall I have never played in MW or Oblivion, so my favourite character is not available to me, and that's what I was railing against, and still could!

If there were 3 or 4 'real' RPG's being released, like when Daggerfall was being released in the 90's,then I would have given up. But I have played Oblivion for over 100+ hours, I have played MW for 100+ hours, I have complete The Witcher and Two Worlds more than once and I have replayed Fallout 1 and Fallout 2. Currently I am playing Fallout 3 and Daggerfall. That's about bare bone roleplaying you can get, unless I just play retro RPG games! After all, other than Dragon Age, which is still a 'maybe', what else are we getting this year?

@lostminstrel. You MUST have 3x magiika,nd you MUST take advantage of advantages and disadvantages, and you almost NEED an Elf that has an automatic save for paralysis, which will help you tremendously early on. Only a Battlemage or Spellsword type character is a viable character, as magic or melee only just isn't going to get you to a level you need to get to, to get the decent armour/weapons for a fighter only or the spells needs for a mage only.

It took me half a dozen re-starts to realise all those character choices you get is a load of phooey, as most of them would hardly get you out of the Privateer's Hold! Practically all of these characters, if chosen, would leave to a frustrating game Goodness only knows how many gamers who played a thief type character in MW successfully and a thief type character in Oblivion successfully did the same in Daggerfall and had such a frustrating time, they just deleted the game and moved on.

I decided to play within the game parameters and now have a Battlemage type character, I would say that and a Spellsword are the only viable characters to play

Humorguy is exaggerating. You can use many spells just fine with even the lowest increased magery advantage (INT in Spellpoints), though I would recommend at least 1.5x if you plan on using spells regularly. As it stands, you currently get 0.5 spellpoints for every point of INT you have. You also don't NEED an Elf. I haven't played a High Elf character in years.

I am currently playing a very successful game as a mostly melee type character. Not wanting to simply rely on magic items and potions to make it through some tougher areas of the game, I took 1.5x INT in Spellpoints as an advantage. This gave me enough spellpoints to cast essential spells, such as recall and healing spells, but not enough to cripple my leveling (via the difficulty dagger) or make me a "powerful mage". I did not chose any magic skills in my primary, major or minor skills. I had to train using the Buoyancy spell until my Thaumaturgy skill was high enough to join the Mage's guild. From there, I made training spells in Mysticism and Restoration so that I could get the spell cost of Recall down. So, while my character is Spellsword-like, he is mostly melee (skill wise) though has a small amount of magical abilities. So far it's working very well and is quiet fun. Training spells was boring, but I felt accomplished when I went from having an average of 2% on my magic skills to being a full fledged member of the mage's guild.

Playing without magic at all IS possible, as I've done it (took the inability to regain spell points and everything), but it's tough and not recommended for beginners. There are many utility spells, such as recall, levitate, and water walking/breathing that you will basically either not be able to use at all or have to find a way to acquire magic items or potions. Levitate is the biggest one you'll miss (though I believe you can train your skill so that it would be under 50 magic points and castable with 05X INT in spellpoints, but don't quote me on that). Some of the dungeons that require levitate to complete do include secret "clicky areas" that cast levitate on you. A main quest dungeon comes to mind, but I can't recall which one...

In the end, even though Humorguy won't admit it, he's just new to the game and frustrated that he can't play a melee only character easily. Unfortunately for him, that has been well know in the Daggerfall community since the game came out in the mid-90's. Coming from those of us having years experience in the game--you CAN play melee only (myself and many others are living proof of it), but I honestly would not recommend it until you've played through the game at least once. Take some magic skills for your first character. As Humorguy said, a Spellsword or Battlemage (or similar character made via custom class) is good to start out with.

You want something that works well with Agility, as that's a crucial stat in the beginning of the game. My current character is a Thief (custom one, some skills shuffled) and I've had no problems. Although this isn't a warrior character, I only use melee weapons. So long as dodging (not necessarily the skill but your ability to backtrack between enemy attacks as well) is up to snuff, you're fine. However, yes, you do want some magicka potential, due to utilitarian spells such as Recall and Levitation which are critical for getting through some of the larger dungeons. This does not require you to take any spell point multipliers or anything, though.

The only bad thing about magic in Daggerfall is that you can expect that a solely magic-based character will have a lot of trouble in the game (without using the spell absorption exploit).

Scampers is obviously a GOD, so follow his instructions to the letter and then see the results.

Shoot,I just give my Custom warrior enough magicka for mark and recall and forget about it.

You forgot the third most essential spell in the game?! One and two being water breathing and levitation of course.

My magicka-less character breezed through that first dungeon with only a scratch. By loading up on those disadvantages, I was immune to to Imps' magic. I could also lower my Int and Wil to 10, giving me plenty of points to boost Agi and Str, so i was 1 or 2 shotting stuff with that ebony dagger. But if you say I need magicka....

New question. I was looking at faction stuff on UESP, and it says that to rank up, I need one high skill to reach the high skill-mark, and ALL my other faction related skills at the low skill-mark. Is that right? ALL of them? Is that even possible without training?

Next question, has anyone done an anolysis on the the benefits of having the difficulty dagger at various positions? What I mean, is that if it is really low, you can level quickly, and train your misc. skills on your own maybe easier. However, if it is high, you can level slowly, and use that to your advantage to keep the cost of training in guilds lower. Which is a better approach? From what I understand, your max-level is going to be the same, regardless of where the dagger is located, it's just the speed at which you get there that changes.

How important is plate armor? Is taking "no plate" as a disadvantage a bad idea? What are some other bad idea advantages and disadvantages? Accute hearing seems like a bad idea, but any others?

How important are those factions anyway? I don't like the idea of having to skill grind to progress through the game. Especially if I need ALL the skills at the low skill-mark.

That's gonna cause you problems later. Especially since you can't use levitation, water breathing, and mark + recall.



Around the middle part is a good plan since the game is level scaled to an extent. (You can still find high level things at a low level and low level things at a high level though)



Really bad, plate armor makes up most of the armor in the game.



Pretty important, the FG is a great way to get maps, the MG has item makers, and enchanted item merchants as well as teleporters, spell makers and Daedra Summoners. Temples are required if you don't join the MG IMO, they offer Daedra Summoning, potion makers, and potion sellers too. Basically, it's a good idea to join some factions.

As I said before, the game is playable without magica but it is not easy. Having Recall saves hours of dungeon crawling, and not having levitate and/or water breath+walking will seriously hinder you in certain dungeons, including some in the main quest. There ARE ways around this in the form of potions and magic items, but it's not an easy fix at all as the required effects you need are often quite rare in items and potions. If you want a challenge however, going magicka-less is the way to go. But don't say we didn't warn you.



This is not correct. You need one high minimum and one low minimum for advancement (plus reputation).



I've never actually done anolysis, but the way it's supposed to work is the lower the dagger, the faster your skills develop. In the end, it's honestly not a huge deal I would imagine unless you have the dagger in either side's red zone.



If you find yourself being hit a lot in melee, you are going to miss wearing those plate armors. Plate has many different materials, from Iron to Daedric each increasing in strength the rarer material you find. Chain and leather are as is--no different materials.



Mage's Guild is essential if you are using magic. If not, a temples can be useful due to potion sellers (or the spellmaker, though there's no point in joining Kynareth for the spellmaker when you should just join the mage's guild instead). Knight's Guilds will eventually offer quests that can net you artifacts. Fighters Guild is the least useful.. it's good for making quick cash and training at early levels but quickly wears out in usefulness. The Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild are mostly pointless and only good for roleplaying your character.

Not if you can get critical strikes and backstabs on a regular basis with your bow or shortsword. I've been playing a thief for awhile now who has no magic at all, and I'm not having a hard time.

The last game I played through was the first time I seriously used archery. I had stealth, critical strike and backstabbing as primary skills, and only had archery in minor and was kicking butt.

Try archery, it's great!

How does archery work in this game?

Archery is entirely skill based. So long as the enemy is somewhere near the center of the screen, you will have a chance to hit him. Archery is a very awesome skill, especially coupled with backstabbing as it is easier to sneak attack from a distance than having to get right up next to them. Just remember that with archery you just click the right mouse button, you don't drag it around or anything.

And if you make yourself a custom "Create Item" spell, you'll never run out of arrows

How do you shoot the arrows? Does it work like melee combat?

You just rick click, and it automatically fires at whatever is in front of you.

Oh ok. Thanks for explaining. It might be a better idea to say which control you press though since some people (Like me) change them. Like when fighting, I left click instead of right click.