All +one hand weapon damage increases do NOT affect daggers...all enchants/perks.

I'm hoping this is a bug as I love playing with daggers as a rogue.

How do you know they dont effect daggers?

Also, Sneak has some dagger related perks.

15x damage svcks?

There is the combination with Sneak perks. I'm working on it now, and if I remember correctly it goes up to fifteen times damage for a sneak attack with daggers. I think that makes them very powerful.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1266212-2469-armor-3199-damage-using-smithing-alchemy-enchanting-only-31-perks/

That post should cover why it is severely underpowered

This is a bug.

Take any of the dagger numbers, and times them by 15. Still underpowered?

compared to a sword with 2.7k damage...a backstab on that is more than whatever a dagger can do

Swords only do slightly more damage than daggers, so even with whatever bonuses you get from one-handed, 15x dagger damage is still going to be comparable to 6x sword. You'd need your sword damage to be 2.5 times as much.

Did you even check the post about the damage? Swords - 2.7k (NON BACKSTAB, imagine 6x backstab with that), Daggers 300. Where is your 15x now?

This must be a bug.

Swords do x6 sneak attack damage. If they benefit from the 5/5 +100% damage, theoretically they will do x12 sneak damage.
Daggers can do x15 sneak attack. They are only slightly better.

But, if you add the fact that swords will always have relatively more base damage than daggers, that makes them even closer. Then there's no real reason to use daggers in sneak attacks.

Daggers not benefiting from sword criticals I can handle, because it is specifically for swords. Axes and maces have their own specific perks too.
But the 1H damage perk is for all 1H weapons. Sword, axe and mace. Using a dagger actually increases your 1H skill, so it should also benefit from this universal 1H damage perk.

The enchants make the bulk of damage increases and yet daggers is not being increased by them. That is a huge deal.

About that 15x... Try 30x damage. I wear gloves that give double backstab damage Where are the 8 divines now?

:shocking:

Well the thread is more about how daggers do not benefit from the first 1H perk that increases damage by 20/40/60/80/100% compared to swords.

In comparison, a sword will do x24 damage. (x6 from base, x12 after the 100% damage 1H perk, then x24 from your gloves).

So it's x30 vs x24. So daggers start to have a noticeable lead.
But there's no reason why the x30 from daggers shouldn't be x60, seeing as there are no other flashy perks for daggers, unlike swords.

30x300 = 9000. 2700x6=16200

Really? Did you even do the math?

Dude you making fun for me? That's really uncalled for. I'm also asking for daggers to benefit from the first 1H perk.

And I call shenanigans. How did you get those numbers? I have the steel dagger and the steel sword, and the steel sword is never 9x more base damage than the dagger. In fact, the difference is not even +9.

no i did not do the math, I was making a joke while pointing out that the gloves were not being taken into account. That said the math might be fancy but it fails on account that this is not an mmo where you just stand there taking turns swinging your axe at an enemy. I'm level 30 and have yet to have a problem with dagger damage. I agree that daggers should be affected by the 1h perk of course, but in a non test environment fighting in a cave, there has never been an issue for me. The raw damage might be lower on a dagger but it makes up for that with weapon speed, which certainly seems to be faster. In a sustained fight, I will on average hit more often with my daggers than if I dual swords causing enchants to proc and probably the same if not more raw damage. But that's just my 2 gold pieces.

This. x15 sneak damage makes a regular dagger hit like a bus, and anything better hits like a nuke.

Daggers aren't meant to be used in a knock down drag out fight against atronochs and mega draugr.
They are meant for sneak attacks, and killing smaller enemies.

Use daggers 'till your stealth is broken, then have something bigger to smack them around with.
My primary is a bow. In my right hand I keep a heavy hitting long sword, and in my left a dagger of
my choosing. I usually have the dagger with some sort of special effect like fear or paralyze.
This way I can backstab when needed, or use it for crowd control in a stand up fight.

tl;dr- save the heavy fighting for swords.

You can't get a sneak attack on every enemy, sometimes theres 3 in a room and you can only sneak attack one. Daggers are weak as hell in normal melee. Sometimes npcs just find you anyways, regardless of stealth level, due to a bug, or you stepped on a bone and it fired like a rocket into the ceiling and woke everyone within 3 miles up.The one handed perk should apply for normal dagger damage.

No, not you, the post above you.

yeah, a dagger's x15 happens once in a fight...and it deals 300x15. Woopie and a sword doing 2.7k a swing. Clearly balanced.

This made me laugh. :celebration:

Also, like the other guy said, it's all about speed. I like daggers because of the speed. It makes me feel flashy, and more like a thief / assassin.
Even more so when you have an enchanted one with certain desirable effects on strike. Allowing you better control of the situation. They also weigh less.

This forum seems to me plagued with WoW min/maxers. I know the type well. They can't seem to let go of the fact that this isn't a numbers game. Your hireling wont kick you out of the dungeon you are pillaging because you don't do the maximum raw damage allowable with every strike.

People need to chill with this nerf / buff garbage. Different categories are stratified to give them a unique feel. Stop trying to "balance" my game. This isn't call of duty. What are you balancing against anyway?

Its also very vague as to whether this is intended or a bug. The one handed skill perk that gives 100% bonus damage affects daggers. But enchants do not. Seems inconsistent.

Also, how would you like it if daggers did 1 damage but were ever so flashy. Backstab did 2 damage max. Still fun right?

Balancing the game against itself.

Yes this isn't WoW or a MMO, but that doesn't mean it should be allowed to have bugs.

There are some people complaining that magic needs buffing. You can't tell them to go play a rogue or a warrior. You should make magic a viable route to success.

Right now people are wondering whether daggers are underpowered compared to 1H weapons. Daggers already have shorter reach and lower base damage. They are already weaker than other 1Hers. They should be kings of sneak attacks to compensate for this. But due to this bug, swords may be just as good, or even better in sneak attacks.

And there is a valid reason to max your sneak attack damage as much as possible. You want to kill your opponent in 1-2 sneak attacks with daggers, because if you don't, you're gonna be in trouble.