Daggers should primarily stab, not slash. : V - Skyrim

» Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:34 pm

If I remember right, Todd said something about daggers being less effective as a combat weapon but more of a use to stealthy and thief-like players because daggers could execute stealth kills with a one-hit kill.

» Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:32 am

Oblivion master blade perk? Any fool could slash but only a master could poke :facepalm:

Hah, yep, and that was the combo where you had to run backwards and hold the attack button, making you miss most of the time because of the daggers terrible reach.

» Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:46 pm

I would like if their was no penalties for using a dagger. Any character archetype should be able to use a dagger efficiently.

Stealth should house the perks, but I don't feel the dagger should fall under any skill.

Daggers should stab often, but it should be a power(hold) attack.

» Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:20 pm

Agreed, slashing with a Dagger wouldn't work, I hope short blade and Long blade are seperate

It would work, just nowhere near as well as a Sword. Slashing someone's throat is not very hard with a dagger, in fact I'd say it's far easier than with a sword. I agree though, daggers shoul primarily be used for stabbing, though I'd like to be able to do both things. I usually favour longswords anyway, but I'd like some versatility in combat.

» Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:48 pm

They seem to work like that. In the trailer, one show of a dagger was a clear stab to the stomach. The other was a neck slitting, which is an acceptable form of a 'slash' for a dagger.

» Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:45 am

Slitting someone's throat and slashing at it are very different acts, though.

I mean... slashing would be while you're in combat. Fast, inaccurate, suitable for the heat of combat. Slicing someone throat's open from behind? Watching the blood spurt from their arteries and then flow down your hands, its delicious warmth seeping down your fingers? So very different.

» Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:05 am

Did it annoying anyone else in Oblivion how daggers were basically used as tiny swords? Your main attack was just quick little slashes, and the sneak attack was even just a strong slash. Daggers are primarily used as stabbing weapons, as they are fast and produce less torque on the wrist when stabbing than with a sword, so your full strength can be put into the motion repeatadly. For immersions sake and to make assassin type characters feel more believable, daggers would need their own fighting style and animations, ie. quickly getting in close and stabbing, then evading an attack and stabbing again, the only slashing a dagger would be used for is striking at shallow arteries like the jugular or under the arm.

...No, it should be used as a sword...don't want my character to look like a constant Micheal Myers...

Maybe, when we are sneaking and going to backstab, the dagger position could c hage, just like in Team Fortress 2.

» Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:04 pm

best solution would be two animations. For a dagger designed for a slash I.E. a curved dagger like the ones used in ancient Persia, a slashing animation. For a more stab-oriented knife such as a stiletto or a shiv should use a thrusting stab. I know it wont happen though cuz that means time for twice the finishers and twice the animations just for knives. Something people forget though that i would like to add. The pommel of a dagger is usually a rather dense piece of metal that is highly effective for a directed force blunt attack. It is taught in many CQC techniques to use the back of the dagger as well. I would find it extremely interesting to see that used to increase diversity.

» Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:04 pm

Did it annoying anyone else in Oblivion how daggers were basically used as tiny swords? Your main attack was just quick little slashes, and the sneak attack was even just a strong slash. Daggers are primarily used as stabbing weapons, as they are fast and produce less torque on the wrist when stabbing than with a sword, so your full strength can be put into the motion repeatadly. For immersions sake and to make assassin type characters feel more believable, daggers would need their own fighting style and animations, ie. quickly getting in close and stabbing, then evading an attack and stabbing again, the only slashing a dagger would be used for is striking at shallow arteries like the jugular or under the arm.

not to be a smart ass, but the jugular is a vein not an artery. Major artery in that region would the carotid arteries. =)

» Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:47 am

not to be a smart ass, but the jugular is a vein not an artery. Major artery in that region would the carotid arteries. =)

Oh really? I thought the carotid artery was just another name for the jugular, i'll have to look it up im interested wether there is actually much bloodflow in the jugular in comparison to the carotid arteries.

Edit: Read this, quite interesting

Carotid Artery
# The carotid artery is the large artery that delivers newly oxygenated blood from the heart to the head and neck. There are actually two branches of the carotid artery--a left and a right half, both of which branch directly off of the aorta, the artery that delivers blood directly out of the heart.
Jugular Vein
# The jugular vein can be divided into two sets of veins--the internal and external jugular veins. Both are responsible for transferring deoxygenated blood from the head back towards the heart. The blood from the jugular veins drain into the superior vena cava which transports all the deoxygenated blood from the upper portion of the body to the right atrium of the heart. From there, it will be pumped to the lungs, then back out to the body.
Misconceptions
# In a number of movies and television shows, the jugular vein is what is thought to be severed when someone's throat is cut in a murder or scene of violence. Since the vein is actually farther back in the throat region than the carotid artery and the jugular vein contains blood under much less pressure than that of the carotid artery, it would be more accurate to say the carotid artery was the blood vessel damaged in these scenes. Blood would spray out of the carotid artery, but not the jugular vein.

» Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:30 am

glad to help =)

» Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:59 am

Yes! Finally someone realizes.

There are 2 types of fighting techniques with knives. Slash and aim for major blood vessels, or stab them.
Even if you slash someone and hit several major viens, they won't bleed out for a few minutes!
Stab someone and the fight can be over in a few seconds.

Short swords are also primarily thrusting weapons, such as the roman gladius. Sure you can slash and chop, and it just might give them a paper cut.

» Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:14 pm

What if we want to be like V from V for Vendetta?

» Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:56 am

I'm pretty sure that was one of the finishing moves they're adding in Skyrim,and not a regular animation.

Does it matter? It wasn't like he was fighting the guy in the tavern before he pulled that attack.

» Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:30 pm

People sure do seem to have some curious concerns when it comes to video games.

I'm going to be happy to play the game. I sure as hell won't be worried about whether X weapon should be performing Y attack just because of [insert reason here].

» Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:48 am

I doubt it tbh, if they were to add a stabbing motion spears would be open to be in game... yeah spears again.
Sorry I could not make this point without an example such as that forbidden topic.

So I honestly think for gameplay, swipes, slashes and swings are what we'll get.

I am afraid you are right :sad:

it is beyond me why they are unable or unwilling to include stabbing and jab animations for weapons like dagger,shortsword or spear.

» Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:42 pm

I'm happy with some of the news that we've heard regarding daggers already. Particularly, the idea that using a dagger while undected should yield a significant damage bonus (and perhaps and instant kill.) Wouldn't it be great if the dagger was finally a viable weapon type!? You should be able to stab as well as slash an opponents throat from behind. I think stabbing is already in, judging from screens already available.

» Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:39 pm

That assassin attack in the trailer was IMHO a stealth attack, or some kind of special sneak one-hit kill (maybe with a % of sucess). Since im a bit sceptical about them implementing stabs and stabs only im hoping that they will atleast implement both swings and stabs.