I certainly think Dagoth Ur believes he has enlightnement, and that he believes his most faithful and most powerful followers will partake (or alread partake) in that enlightenment.

But, "no one can leave that place and cause anything more but strife."

I played Morrowind so long ago that I don't even remember what Dagoth Ur said in the final confrontation.

But I do know that he was extremely persuasive and I went from a "must save the world from expanding evil" mindset to wanting to join Dagoth Ur. I would have if he'd given the option. Bethesda did a great job on his personality.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/alt-assault-dagoth-ur

He didn't assassinate Zurin at all, he simply took advantage of the outcome of Zurin's botched mission to kill the Underking.

As for the Empire, it could have been much, much worse. It outlawed slavery, established freedom of religion, racial equality (more or less), and greatly reduced warring between the factions.

What is so bad with being turned into an ash being? Im not talking about the zombies - im on about the elephants/ascended sleepers. Clearly they retain their intellect as they can communicate with you perfetly and surely it's just a cosmetic change -,- (Or am I missing something?). The Chimer were turned into Dunmer. The Dunmer can be turned into Sleepers - and a Sotha Sil-equivilent can deliver a speech of why they should be proud of their new look

I think that was the point of the Ascended Sleepers and the Ash Ghouls; they're meant to be a step up from Dunmer. At least in Dagoth Ur's mind.

That "it could have been worse" is hardly a valid argument. It could always have been worse, or better.

In Dagoth Ur′s world there would just be a few persons who had any freedom. You cant be sure that you are one of them. I dont think arrogance is one of the traits Ur liked. He was very humble actually. You should also have been. What you said in the beginning of this page is not humble.

Same. In fact I did, with a mod.

I think Ur is insane, and as a god he is out of touch with the mortal world, and the damage he is doing. I think what really made me like him the most was how he wanted to free the world (well, morrowind at least, which to most dunmer IS the world) from the daedra, by making everyone gods themselves.
I could be wrong here, but I thought corpus was the spark of the divine from the Heart of Lorkhan, and that, unattended, it spread like a cancer, either killing you or making you into a corpus beast, but if you agreed to serve him, he took control of the transformations. Each transformation brings you closer to the divine (and less and less human/elvish - ash ghouls have a chunk of their face missing, ash priests have a weird spike sticking out of the gap, and by the time you develop into an ascended sleeper they have become tentacles).

Anyway, would I actually join him in real life? Possibly, if I was a disenfranchised dunmer - he certainly has a better chance at overthrowing the empire than any of the ashlanders and great houses.

So ghoul->priest->A.Sleeper. It's all part of the evolution they go through?

Also, what ARE ash vampires? Chimer-turned-Dunmer? Why are they so tall, frightening(yes i nearly crapped myself after seeing the first on at the end of the hallway when you have to do the Urshilaku quest to acquire 3 items from the 6th house base. Gives me creeps thinking of it now), and what's with their teeth?


Edit: Also. Why does Dagoth Ur/Ash Vampire have three eyes? Due to the mutations or to make it known to all that Ur and the Vampires are the highest authority?

"I'm a God, how do you hope to kill a god? What a grand and intoxicating innocence!"--Dagoth Ur

Yea, he was humble alright...

Yeah. Don't take my word on this totally, but I always thought that basically, you can come to dagoth ur in two ways. Either his dreamsends turn you into a sleeper/dreamer, or you get corpus and go to the red mountain. In fact, I think that corpus is literally a divine disease - it comes from the heart of lorkhan, and is what all of dagoths servants are made from. In most, this divinity is uncontrolled and warps the body and destroys the mind - corpus monsters. To those who serve Dagoth Ur, this divine spark is controlled and manipulated, eventually turning you into an ascended sleeper.
Ash slaves, the lowest level, seem to have no eyes, implying that perhaps they must remove them - this would increase their reliance on their new divine senses. Ash ghouls have lost their face (except their mouth completely), making way for the growths that develop in the ash priests and mature fully in the ascended sleepers.



It's explained in game I believe, though its been a while since I did the main quest. I think they were House Dagoths nobles, Dagoth Urs lieutenants, etc. that he bound to the heart as he is.



In the real world, the "third eye" is a spiritual symbol. Dagoth Ur and the Ash Vampires are awakened, enlightened, whatever, and that shows it.

Ah right thanks. And doesn't the person infected with Corupus become immortal from age-related death? Allow me to keep my mind and I'll become disfigured for that

In the end it's hard to tel, really.

No matter his initial motives (or those of his friends aka Tribunal) through the heart everything shifts from reality. And madness eclipses and the exalted ones become corrupted.
Everyone in his own way.

Concerning Ur;
and what's left ...a sickness that would've spread past the Gate, and shaped everything the way Ur, in his corrupted state, envisioned as better or improved or good
Yeah, corpus may be divine and immortality is en vouge, but the fun is gone once your mind is gone. Soulsickness and Dreamers, diseased Flora + Fauna and Men and Mer not much better off.
Rather Bloodsvcker than that.

And what would be the future? A gigantic construct made to conquer, destroy and being worshiped. I personally see the empire as an far less radical and pain in the butt alternative, even if I hate them.

Hence my vote:
Yes, but his actions are still completely based on power-hunger underneath his messianic-complex, though he is not aware of this.

They do. Of course there are other ways to get immortality...

Yeah, but they're long and tedious. This is a quick stop shop


So wait, semi-offtopic: Is Tiber Septim a good guy? And if not why was he allowed to become part of the Divines?

I just want to point out that, yes, Dagoth Ur intended to bestow (what he believed to be) enlightenment on his followers, but the 36 Lessons of Vivec are basically an instruction booklet for being a Ruling King.

Any offer from Dagoth Ur ought to be compared to the offer from Vivec, who realized he could offer something which did not involve sundering Lorkhan even more.

The God of Worms has an offer for you.

The God of Worms is a much better alternative to Dagoth Ur. Actually I would have joined him if it werent for the small fact that he doesnt show up in Oblivion (or Morrowind). Not the real one atleast.

The Septim Empire brought peace, stability, religious and racial tolerance, and prosperity to Tamriel. It's a miracle it worked out as well as it did. If anything, it would be far more likely for things to have not worked out so well than for things to be even better.

What he said. Just because you (Luagar) are a selfish power-hungry bastard doesnt mean other people cant feel empathy or sympathy, cant remember which is which. Okay... Perhaps I was a little harsh there. But that is because I want you to understand.

Dagoth Ur would have also brought peace, stability, religious and racial tolerance, and prosperity to Tamriel - yet Ur would have one-upped Septim by also bringing immortality as his crown-jewel, immortality both for the common people and immortality for the peace, stability and power of Tamriel. In case you haven't noticed the Septim Empire has ended, that's because Septim didn't have the blessing of immortality which only Ur could bestow upon an empire.

Hey, its for the greater good, what can I say... :icecream:

Besides, I'm not selfish, like Ur told me when I said I would share the power of the Heart:

"You have a noble spirit. I share the power I have from the Heart to help free mortals from their ancient fears of the gods. Who knows what we may be capable of once we not longer fear death? Your goal is worthy, and I honor you for it."

And all this time I thought I was the only one who thought that way.

And, ultimately, if Dagoth Ur won, then the Oblivion Invasion would have been delayed (until someone destroyed another Tower by accident, as seems to happen with an alarming regularity), and the Ministry of Truth wouldn't have gone SPLAT into Vvardenfell.

Dang, now I want to use that 6th House mod...

To the eyes of chaos, he's too weak too even care what his intentions were. A pathetic mortal struck him down, and now Dagoth Ur would have his soul forever tormented for his abysmal failure if I was there to herald the coming of the Dark Gods!