Dagoth Ur isnt the bad guy?

Post » Fri Jan 09, 2015 7:21 am

So after getting back to playing Morrowind and getting into lore, some questions appeared:

If Dagoth used the heart, why is his skin black? Almalexia, who used the heart first, has completely golden skin. Vivec was second, using it the moment of Azura's curse and he is half gold half black, and Sotha used it last, and curse happened before him using it. If Dagoth indeed used it first, why isnt he golden? Why is he affected by Azura's curse?

Considering Skyrim revealed what happened after Dagoth's defeat, and that Vivec was the one who killed Nerevar, shouldnt we doubt the entire event story?

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Crystal Birch
 
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Post » Fri Jan 09, 2015 2:14 pm

It has never been confirmed who killed Neravar, or for that matter anything about that event beyond besides Neravar died and the other 4 broke their promise about using the heart (for good or ill) and thus azura cursed them. Everything else is simply speculation and guesswork.

what we do know, is that whether he was good before or not, by the time of Morrowind, Dagoth Ur is insane and is evil in every way.

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Crystal Birch
 
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Post » Fri Jan 09, 2015 5:00 am

That is why Morrowind has such a good story. Its not a case of be the goodguy and kill the badguy. Its a complex and even doubtful story of what happened. This lets the player himself decide which is better but it offers subtle clues. When I killed Dagoth I killed him a long-lost friend. I didn't kill Vivec deciding to give him another chance. Hopefully he wouldn't fail in that one. Also I sometimes doubt if Vivec killed Neravar. I always suspected the Great Houses because he was also a political threat to their power. But as PKMN12 said its mostly just guesswork.

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Amanda Furtado
 
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Post » Fri Jan 09, 2015 1:58 pm

The Trial began with the accusations of whether or not Vivec murdered his ruler and friend, Nerevar. To assure that his answers were truthful, Vivec applied his Water-Face so that he could answer without lying, and then told his judges that in his mortal life he was responsible for the death of Nerevar, but not in his life as a diety, which he claimed were separate.

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Lil Miss
 
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Post » Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:57 pm

Hmm. I believe Vivec didn't kill Neravar but maybe agonised the Great Houses into doing it.

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Cayal
 
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Post » Fri Jan 09, 2015 5:13 am

Turns out Vivec used the time to take his revenge on Azura for taking Godhood away:

When Hogithum arrived, the priest Ainoryl was given the task of summoning Azura within the Hall. After the preparations were made, Azura was summoned but before the judges could ask her any questions Vivec interrupts revealing his true intentions for the assembly of the trial. Vivec used his shadow to wrap around Azura and reveal her neonymic, fully manifesting and binding her to http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Mundus. Vivec then proceeded to call forth her protonymic, further binding her to the realm and releasing the mortal soul of Almalexia which was trapped within Azura's Star. With Azura fully bound to Mundus, Vivec revealed to her his ability to utilize http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/CHIM and then assembled his spear http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Muatra from the bones of his armor, thrusting it down her throat and banishing her from the world. With Azura defeated, Vivec thanked his court for unintentionally helping him get his long awaited revenge on Azura, and in conclusion, placed Alandro Sul's ringlet in his mouth which issued a voice stating the secret message found in the http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/36_Lessons_of_Vivec, "He was not born a god. His destiny did not lead him to this crime. He chose this path of his own free will. He stole the godhood and murdered the Hortator." Vivec then vanishes, implying that his disappearance was done so on his own initiative

And he also didnt use his last power to put down the meteor that hanged over Vivec city, instead leaving it deliberately in place, knowing that when he looses power, it will fall down (Meaning he wanted Dunmer to die once he looses his powers)

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Cool Man Sam
 
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Post » Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:14 pm

You got that off the Elder scrolls wiki, Didn't you? That wiki is famous for taking guesswork and headcanon as fact and even having outright lies that make no sense. this is a great example, none of that is at all canon

use the UESP and the imperial Library for at info

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Victoria Vasileva
 
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Post » Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:58 pm

But he just admited to killing Nerevar before becoming God (Or basicaly killing him in order to become God)

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ezra
 
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Post » Fri Jan 09, 2015 3:19 am

Doesn't mean he stabbed him with a dagger or poisoned his cup. There are many other ways to kill without actualliy killing. For example the cunning murderer would drive his victim to suicide. I don't think anyone has done that but the idea would work. The murderer walks off scot free and the target is dead. Vivec would whispered maybe half-truths to the Great Houses. Think about, Neravar was as close to king of Morrowind. I'm sure that gave the houses and the current king a scare. And so Vivec might have told them that Neravar was planning to take them over. However the past is the past and I forgave Vivec because I'm sure Neravar was no goody-two-shoes himself. I certainly wasn't so why should he have to be good. In your version of the trial he states he is responsible of the death not that he did it.

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Janeth Valenzuela Castelo
 
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Post » Fri Jan 09, 2015 1:36 pm

no, he never actually did, that is the wiki making things up. He admits that he "as good as" killed Neravar at one point in morrowind, but that is clearly talking about the fact that he broke what might have been his best friends last wish or that he blames himself, even when he never had anything to do with his death.

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Michelle Chau
 
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Post » Fri Jan 09, 2015 1:05 am

Even if admitance is false, how to explain Dagoth's skin. The moment the Tribunal went for the heart, they got preserved exactly as they were in that moment.

So if there was no curse when Almalexia was bonding, and curse started when Vivec was bonding, and curse was fullfiled when Sotha was bonding, how is it possible that curse affected Dagoth, if he bonded before all of them?

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louise hamilton
 
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Post » Fri Jan 09, 2015 9:47 am

Dagoth's form is now malleable due to him being a godly being, so he most likely changed his appearance for the sake of appealing to the now Dunmer, much like Vivec encompassing both Chimeri and Dunmeri aspects within himself.

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Kelly Osbourne Kelly
 
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Post » Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:27 pm

This, Being a God-King has its perks.

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Chris Duncan
 
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Post » Fri Jan 09, 2015 5:49 am

Why would Sotha, who didnt really care about outside events, make himself apear as Dunmer?

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Amie Mccubbing
 
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Post » Fri Jan 09, 2015 1:43 pm

I don't know what you're talking about. Sotha Sil looks nothing like a Dunmer in Tribunal.

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Alex Blacke
 
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Post » Fri Jan 09, 2015 7:26 am

He looks like a mortal sized half-robot skeleton thing........not as a dunmer

Also, forgot to add, It could also be game-designers not thinking in the case of Dagoth Ur and simply giving him a dunmer look.

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Dale Johnson
 
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Post » Fri Jan 09, 2015 9:59 am

The Trial of Vivec is archived in the Imperial Library.

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JAY
 
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Post » Fri Jan 09, 2015 6:34 am

Sotha was supposed to be the one to reasure the Dunmer that the change wasn't a bad thing, but a sign that they had reached a new high. I'd imagine he though the message would be better received if he did sport the new look ;)

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Lory Da Costa
 
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Post » Fri Jan 09, 2015 7:21 am

Librarian Comment:

Note: This role-play is done in the Official TES Forum. Some devs and ex-devs participate in the play, and to the fans this event in the play is considered semi-official. But still one must remember that so far there is no official word from gamesas regarding this play. Some more information about the gamesas Developers: Michael Kirkbride played Vehk, Azura, and Ainoryl; Ted Peterson played the Daedric Prince Sheogorath, Celarus and Gosleigh; Ken Rolston played The Emperor Uriel Septim VII; Kurt Kuhlmann played Hasphat Antabolis; and GT Noonan played Divayth Fyr.

so it means little to nothing, since there is no words from Bethesda. It can be your personal head canon, yeah, but it is still not canon, especially since we know Azura was not effected by anything at all (if it was, you would think there would be SOME kind of info about it, or some backlash from her) and the personalities are out of whack for the characters.

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M!KkI
 
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Post » Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:54 am

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/thirty-six-lessons-obscurity-and-deception

This was later depicted by Michael Kirkbride in http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/7236/foulmurder.jpg. http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1370866-foul-murder/

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Philip Lyon
 
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Post » Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:55 am

1. HE says in morrowind that he "good as kiled him" in that he might blame himself for it (whether he could do anything or not, i mean, he could have killed the real killer but clearly did not) Also, might i point out, it mentions that he took the godhood first, which we DO know is not true.

2. Right there is your problem, MK is not bethesda......and thus everything he says or does has to be taken with a grain of salt. The games clearly want it to be a mystery and thus have revealed nothing about what really happened, thus offical canon states it is not known what happened.

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WTW
 
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Post » Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:29 pm

As you will.

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Farrah Lee
 
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