It's a http://www.nostalgiacentral.com/tv/drama/kungfu.htm term! And it was a TV series, not a movie.

In which case we never had anything to discuss. All points are dropped and hopefully do not land vertical, lodged between the floorboards.


I don't know what "let's get posi and BOT" means but you are quite right. It's easy to get caught out justifying yourself and then justifying your justification in these sorts of topics, though still no excuse. I should have stopped myself from becoming bemired by this. I apologise.

Can I please have my cookie now?


I think his actions are disagreeable and repugnant. He was also written to be a villain. In that sense, I would consider him evil. But evil is not a term I would normally use because it is vague and loaded with connotations I find unacceptable .

Why are all points dropped? My point's aren't dropped, if you drop yours okay I guess. Simply because i said i didn't call myself smarter then you doesn't mean my points don't exist. But if you don't have anything else to say I understand.

Just because one is insane and may possibly have felt betrayed by a friend doesn't make the robbing of free will (mind control) and the planned genocide of all non-dunmer "good."

Or you have to define "goodness" as "the similarity to people such as Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, or Pinochet."

Evil does not exist. In my opinion anyways. Even the devil, who is supposedly the most evil of things in the universe, once was the most beautiful and fair of angels.

Dagoth Ur is a liar and a deceiver, he tries to justify his cause and says that he will unite and drive out the foriegners but the only thing he is attracted to is power. He became this way the first time he saw sunder and keening, once he became immortal he was after personal gain rather than for his people. He turns his followers into ash slaves and zombies and that is all they are, slaves to his cause. He may of once been honorable and "Good", but that side of him left once he attained his power.

Hmm evil, if it's true that Nerevar died by Dagoth due the tools. I'm not sure but I think he's evil by all means.

The Imperials see him as evil, and Dagoth see the Imperials as evil. Who is the more right? Dagoth has tainted and killed and murdered and so on and been the reason for much suffering, but all for his greater good. The Imperials have [censored], conqured, driven people from their homes and destroyed their religion and banned their traditions and rituals as evil, but for their greater good.

Who is the most evil? None, it's all a point of view.

Who's religion did they destroy???

My history may be bad but the point stands. Perspective defines reality.

Indeed it does. The only additional point I was trying to make is that an oft-repeated falsehood is as much a part of our perception as things we see in plain sight.

Hmmm, I think I could build on this argument.
If this theory is 'true' then the fact that I thought that they thought the world was flat means in my reality they did believe the world was flat. That might be a little hard to follow, but is that what you're saying?

Perspective defines the perception of reality.

Yes. The way I see it, that's a central concept of mythopoiesis. What you believe about something is the reality of that thing. This is what enables myths to come into existence and to persist. And because of these myths, Tamriel exists, the Elder Scrolls contain all prophecy, the Emperor came to the true belief that the Nerevarine was in his prison, etc., etc.

How real is that which you can't perceive? If it cannot be proven then does it exist?

But there is no definite reality apart from the observer. The observer's perspective defines not only how the observer perceives that reality, I'll grant you that, but I'll go it one further: the observer's perspective is what makes that reality concrete and not mere clouds of probability. Ask Schroedinger's cat, if it's still alive. (If it isn't, ask Schroedinger.)

I thought that was the inability to observe without effecting the outcome?

He turned a huge part of Vvanderfell into ash and seemed intent to do the same to all of Tamriel, but still considered the Nerevarine his friend.

If the Nerevarine wanted to save the continent from him, the Nerevarine would have to betray that ancient friendship, betray the only person that supported him after the Tribunal betrayed Nerevar himself to achieve the power of the heart.

I think of him as a sad, mad figure that couldn't see the evil of his actions. Neither evil or good, he was beyond that, lost in his own insanity. The real evil, from the start, was always the Tribunal.

It's deeper than that. It's the outcome not even existing without the observer: there is only a cloud of greater or lesser probability until an observation forces the outcome to be just one of the possible states. Strictly speaking, it shouldn't be applied to anything bigger than molecule-scale events, but we don't have to speak all that strictly here

in my view dagoth is mixed between good and evil

Good Motives/Reasons:He was betrayed by ALMSIVI, His good friend nerevar was killed by the ALMSIVI, the ALMSIVI used lorkhans heart to become gods(As did he), he wanted revenge for the death of nerevar,others but i cnat think of them
Evil Motives/Reasons:he tryed to kill me(and many others) in game, he gave many people corpus(even though he thought it to be divine), his many minions tryed to kill me(and many others) in game,there more buyt i cant remember

Lore errors:i cant remember if it was lorkhans heart or kagrenacs tool that made them gods can some tell me?

any way those are my beliefs

This should be added to the "Good Motives" side, seeing as killing Necromancers is considered a noble cause in the Empire...


And it's both the Heart and the Tools that make them gods; the Tools are used to harness the Heart's powers (though it should be noted that Ur didn't just use the Tools to become a god)...

Its all relative to whose side your on, thus the poll needs a neither option.

since i usually agree with all the imperial military commands i think hes evil

No. The OP said "Do you think him evil?", it's an opinion question (meaning you answer relative to the side you happen to be on)...

He is the Sharmat, believing he is the center of the wheel and sun, he betrayed his friend and without remorse.

Perhaps the heart has the same effect as booze: it lets the true, supressed feelings come out. Or perhaps not, but rather it corrupts totally, or both.

He had his role to play, I had mine. He may as well have been anyone at that point.

See how it works?... Hey this is old :facepalm: