Necromancer?...(not trying to get off topic but What?)

I've never considered him evil. At least, he isn't compared to the more "typical" evil villians that my characters have gone up against in the long list of video games that I've played. Dagoth Ur always stands on in my mind as the one enemy that I really didn't want to kill. Yes, he was doing some things that were unethical but I tend to blame that on what being so close to the Heart did to do him. When reading his dialog it seemed like you could get a sense of the noble mer that he used to be. At least in my humble opinion.

I just read Sermon 15, it tells all.

My answer to this question is no.

Not good, not evil. A loyal friend who was corrupted by the Heart. No real choice involved - he was warped by something beyond his control. He also has some pretty justifiable motives for vengeance against the Tribunal. Really, he's not much worse than they are. You can understand what he wants to do and why he thinks it is good, but his thinking has become skewed.

So at his core, Dagoth Ur is not best described as a good or evil individual, but as first and foremost a tragic figure.

You, my friend, have purposely or accidentally practiced the black magicks of "thread necromancy". I mean seriously, this thread is two years old! It smells awful.

But on topic, I guess, the majority of ther arguements in FAVOR of Dagoth Ur go along the lines of "he wanted what's best for Morrowind" which shows a clear misunderstanding of Ur's plans.

Conquest and domination are what he wanted.

By using the mind-controlling powers of the Divine Disease, he would gain an army of mindless soldier-drones, then he would establish a new theocratic dictatorship with him/Akulakhan at the head. Then he would set out to conquer Tamriel with his own Stompy v.2.0, killing anyone and anything that got in his path. I don't see how anyone could not find him evil. Voryn Dagoth was a tragic figure, yes, but the actions of him as Dagoth Ur (the previously mentioned mass genocide, slavery, robbing of free-will &c &c) along with his true intentions were indisputable. Even along the lines of "good and evil are relative", I mean, okay, RELATIVE TO ANYONE NOT DAGOTH UR, Dagoth Ur was evil.

Now that I think about it though...

MORROWIND 2!!!

The Sharmat has succeeded in completing Akulakhan, laying all of Morrowind, indeed all of northeast Tamriel to waste! Our hero, the Nerevarine must travell to the Imperial City, obtain the Mantella, and then awaken the sleeping Numidium from the Halls of Colossus! The final battle between TWO GIANT ROBOTS!!!!

In the Grey Maybe, Black and White in pure forms do not exist. They CANNOT exist.

Ur isn't Evil. Good and Evil in pure fairytale forms CANNOT exist in the Grey Maybe.

/endandburnthread.

well i did not know that i only commented on it because i thought i was an ineresting topic(sry for gettin off topic again

his heart is in the right place.

but his methods are not.

guess that makes him an anti-hero,which raises the question are anti-heros evil?

what makes a person evil thier cause or thier methods?

He is sort of Lorkhan'y.

He didn't betray. (I'm the opposite of you; a Morrowind patriot)
All he did was take Nerevar too seriously. Nerevar, after seeing is old friend Dumac die, with the rest of the Dwemmer, he told Dagoth Ur to protect Kagrenac's Tools while Nerevar strolled out to consult (And be killed by) the Tribunal.
Then the Tribunal came back and asked demanded the tools, so they could make themselves Gods. Now this is where my understanding weakens.
Ur was driven mad by the tools, and that's partly the reason he defended the tools. The other part was the fact that:

The Tribunal betrayed, not Dagoth Ur

As they killed Nerevar, and had no pure reason to take the tools. But then again, he was made a god, too... ?
Either way, the Tribunal are more betrayers than Dagoth Ur.

As for the blight, I'm not sure. I thought it was just Trinimac shooting Lorkhan's heart into Morrowind that caused the blight. But you may be right...

I apologize for my semi-rant, and for quoting some one on the first page without reading the other posts...


Ha! Vivec wrote that crap, and it was one of the three who killed Nerevar! As I said, it's a bigger betrayer than Ur would ever be.
Why should we believe what it has to say about Dagoth Ur? That's like reading Mehrunes Dagon's opinion on Akatosh (Although it's never stated that Dagon hates Akatosh, but you get the point)
I mean sure, some things are true in those sermons, but their opinionated. I mean, the first couple sermons Vivec is still in his egg! Does that at all seem rational?

I'd like to amend my vote.

I'd be careful about dismissing the 36 Sermons and labeling Vehk as just a liar and a betrayer.

God is Love.

Voryn Dagoth was motivated by loyalty and honor.

God is Love.

Dagoth Ur was motivated by egomania and lust for power.

God is Love.

Vivec is more than we see.

God is Love.

The cause makes something evil, think, what if I wanted to do a mass genocide to make world peace, or if I wanted to make world peace to destroy the world, both can be viewed evil, but the second IS, because no one or nothing benefits from it.

The Harth's power, drained and shaped with the Tools - which means both. But with the Harth as the main factor.

Because he quoted Dagoth Ur silly.

He had his role to play, I had mine. He may as well have been anyone at that point.

...
Well...
...
I dislike the number 14, so I never read that sermon...

BUt 14 is Pete Rose's number. How could you not like it?

OFF TOPIC: I believe that, seeing how we can enter into such lengthy and passionate debate over The Ur-man's morality, the devs have succeeded in creating a very deep and engaging character.

ON TOPIC: Good and bad are relative, Grey Maybe, yadda yadda.

That's no problem, because it came from number 15.

Ohmygoodness



YES, OF COURSE HE'S EVIL! HE TRIES TO KILL YOU!


Miserunderstood... Honestly!

...
15 is a boring number. Why would I read something that has a boring number in the title?

"Dagoth isn't evil, he just wanted the best for Morrowind!"
Hitler wanted the best for Germany by killing "evil" jews. Several communist leaders thought capitalists are evil and fighted them. Everyone thinks he's doing the right thing, otherwise they wouldn't do it, would they?
You say he's not evil because there's no evil or good in reality... but we are talking about a fantasy game. Fantasy. Where good and evil exists. Where bad boys kill people and good boys help people.

"Dagoth isn't evil, he was corrupted by the heart!"
This just says the reason of his evilness. Nothing more.
Example: Mehrunes Dagon was created as the God of destruction. He isn't responsible for this role. Is he evil? Yes.

That is quite irrelevant, maybe you're the one that's evil...

Have you ever heard of a false anology, because you make ample use of it. Get past hot-words such as 'Hitler' and 'communists' and actually think about your answer - things are always more complicated than they're made out to be, especially when making comparisons between real life and fantasy...

And the fact that it's a fantasy game is exactly why good and evil do not exist, The Elder Scrolls devs aren't that boring. Try reading abit, the whole premise of the TES world denies good and evil...

Again, do your reading:

"On Daedra as Good or Evil: As some have said, they are neither. Some are certainly more aggressive than others. Some have a greater tolerance for mortals. But, I wouldn't say that any are good or evil. Some people think of Azura as a "good" Daedra. That could end up being a very dangerous misconception in the Elder Scrolls world."--Bluedev

Intrestin definition you got there.

Morrowind's brand of fantasy was hardly like that, and Ur was a morally ambiguous character. Unless you're a Daedric pawn Ur was one of the good guys. The Nerevarine one of the bad. And, for me, Ur went above and beyond the call of duty by trying to bring all the fractured personalities of the Aurbis under a single mind -- whether he was fully aware of what he was doing or not.

Let's let this thread die.