Both would be nice, but my allegiance is forever with The Morog Tong. I just hope we aren't forced to exterminate them for some sort of DB questline.

I wouldn't mind either, both or newer versions of differing cutthroats, I would rather the guilds didn't get along and fought aginst each other, I liked the 3 house in morrowind, one against the others for dominance. I would like to join one side or other in civil war.

Although in an ideal world, we would have both of them mutually exclusive with an intertwining story, I would settle for joinable Brotherhood with a few quests involving Morag Tong fragments from the relocated Dunmer on Solstheim.

dark brotherhood quests.........awesome. dark brotherhood characters............svcked. i hope they make the new dark brotherhood more professional and less "unstable". these are supposed to be the best assassins around and they gave me the impression of a circus. i had a mod installed that allowed me to save them from the slaughter by warning them but after i got past that part i uninstalled the mod and reloaded an earlier save and then killed them all because they were almost all a bunch of incompetent morons. vicente was the only one that seemed to have any sense of smarts.

I would love a Morag vs DB guild war quest line. Like, an assassin war would be the best thing ever as long as we can chose either side(or twist it and become leader of both by playing each side).

See, I really don't like how some people see the Dark Brotherhood as some form of pack for the Emo's and Goths of Tamriel. I've read a DB fan-fiction once that was basically, "Oh man, my parents don't understand me. I'm so joining the Dark Brotherhood." I cried inside that day.

To me the Dark Brotherhood is a religious death cult. It's members take on the roll of a Psychopomp of sorts. Of course, we see that not all the members are active followers of Sithis so, it's clearly obvious one doesn't have to worship Sithis. Each member in Oblivion seemed carry on living their lives quiet happily without suddenly breaking down in tears and going off the write poetry or finding some entrails to eat. I don't see why a faction that venerates death and wears dark clothing, should be unhappy. If anything, that's generalising.

Variety is good, so it would be nice to have both. Also, I would probably join the Tong over the Brotherhood; my general feeling is that the Tong seem more skillful than the Brotherhood... that is just my impression, though.

Plus, this would mean some fun rival quests between the two; that would be pretty cool.

Skillful? A group of killers who are issued government sanctioned papers as a get-out-of-jail card, allowing them to wear the loudest and brightest of armors while shouting at the top of their lungs? Seriously, I created some nvde berserk who used 2 handed hammers and didn't know what the word "sneaking" is. I'd just go in, bash the target's skull, show my papers to the ordinators or guards, and skip along on my merry way knowing I killed some poor sap in plain view and in front of everyone around me. There was no sense of getting caught or danger there. If anything, being allowed such papers would make that organization lazy.

With the DB, I could do what I did above, but I'd easily get caught by the authorities, and I'd easily become a felon. Not to mention the dark brotherhood has existed underground for a helluva lot longer than the MT, who had halls in plain view. There was no sense of secrecy with the MT, they were just a band of government sanctioned killers, hired by Great Houses to kill members from other great houses.

Not sure what to think... I think the overall DB questline in Oblivion was the best of all the faction storylines with some nice twists and turns, but some of the members you met in the sanctuary seemed a bit too psychotic for my tastes (especially Antoinetta Marie and Gogron gro-Bolmog) which in turn made the overall organization seem rather bland and way too ridiculous to be considered an actual cohesive body of assassins.

They severely lacked professionalism in my opinion and gave the overall impression that it was just a rag-tag band of unstable psychotic killers. To me they were more the cackling 'muhahaha I am so evil' and less the specialists that excell at their job of covert assassinations.

But then my opinion on real assassins might differ from how the Dark Brotherhood was meant to be in The Elder Scrolls as I would have loved a more Ninja-esque approach. Calculation, infiltration, deception and elimination instead of the 'Be sure to go muhahaha before you kill them lolol11'. :shrug:

But this is just my opinion... Please forgive this old ninjitsu student his musings

Yet if I had to choose, I'd still choose the Dark Brotherhood; but I'm hoping for a more professional organization with actual assassins instead of psychotic lunatics. The legal killings of the Morag Tong would seem a bit out of place in Skyrim...

Neither. But does not really matter to me, as I would not be joining either of them, so....

I like Morag Tongs' honor better, but I like that the DB is illegal. I think it's cheap to just be able to waive a piece of paper and walk free. I'd like to have the danger of someone seeing my act and telling the guards. But if I had to choose strictly one of those two, then I'd go with Dark Brotherhood.

They did mess up the Brotherhood in Oblivion. They were supposed to be the profit oriented assassins, not the crazy religious ones like the Morag Tong. The Morag Tong worship a being of murder, the Brotherhood clearly didn't before. You knew they messed it up from the start when they gave you an assassin's uniform in Oblivion. It made no sense. Collecting clothing is what the Morag Tong does, it's about all they do.

Also it's clear that the Morag Tong only exists because the government of Morrowind forbade open warfare. Without government support, they're just cannon fodder crazies, and not a respectable organization.

I agree with the rest, but the uniform still makes sense to me. In the Tribunal expansion you raided a lair and every single one of those guys had a DB uniform.
Not sure if I'm missing something.

Didn't the Dark Brotherhood break off from the Morag Tong? Making the Tong the more universal of the two, since they used to operate all across Tamriel? And where was the Morag Tong uniform?

I really don't think allowing open warfare would negate assassins. We've had plenty of open warfare in real world history, and we've still had plenty of assassins.

Are you just making stuff up?

They were shown that was in Morrowind, true, and that's likely where the trouble began concerning bethesda's shifting view of the brotherhood. That's where the bad idea of the sanctuary got started, and the lack of individualism. What good does it do an assassin of someone can see you coming by your clothing?

To answer the last question first, the Morag Tong questline was about collecting clothing items. The Brotherhood did break off from the Tong, but every source mentioning either recognizes that the Brotherhood is an empire wide organization where the Tong is a small cult only found in Morrowind.

Previous to that, the Morag Tong existed in relative peace, more or less like a witches' coven-occasionally persecuted but usually ignored. In remarkable synchronicity at a time when Tamriel the Arena was a fractured land, the Morag Tong was outlawed throughout the continent. Every sovereign gave the cult's elimination his highest priority. Nothing more was officially heard of them for a hundred years.

It is more difficult to date the Era when the Morag Tong re-emerged as the Dark Brotherhood, especially as other guilds of assassins have sporadically appeared throughout the history of Tamriel.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-brothers-darkness

We aren't talking about real life, we're talking TES lore. I sure didn't write it.

In former times, the clans carried out their feuding with open warfare. This was forbidden under the Tribunal, but the clans still engage in bloody infighting through the unique institution of the Morag Tong, the sanctioned guild of assassins.

No, just playing it. In the games.

ahh, I see.

To an extent isn't it just the case that in both games the Brotherhood's armour was just 'black leather armour' in the style of both provinces (so the MW stuff had goggles, etc.) It's not like it was daubed with their insignia or anything, it was just 'stealthy armour' designated to the Brotherhood by game mechanics.

If they weren't wearing the black armour, what else would they have worn? (Certainly in Oblivion) Mithril/Chainmail/Glass? The gaudy civilian clothes? Leather armour or nothing else, basically. And that could have been seen as no less a 'uniform' in itself had they taken that route...

i choose the brotherhood.
they got me too play with multiple characters because it was awesome and fun.
the "Whodunit" Quest, Priceless

neither, some knew faction that fits the Nord theme!

To expand, I would think a Vikingesque nation would encourage duels, blood wars, and what not as a display of pride and honor. So no assassin faction, because they are dishonorable and cowardly!

Ever seen DF's DB? Best damn organisation ever... they seemed skilled, faceless, and willing to kill whoever tried to run an assassination buisness... and to me they only acted like a religius cult to hide their occupation...

The only thing I liked about the Dark Brotherhood was their quests, and that had nothing to do with the fact that it was the Dark Brotherhood faction. Any assassin faction will do, I have no love in particular for the DB.

Ofcourse, Daggerfall was what got me into all of this. That's why I was annoyed to see how the Dark Brotherhood degenerated from a mysterious structured organization under the pretense of a religious cult to bind their members that was both respected and feared in Daggerfall (and Morrowind) to a bunch of religious psychos with garden gnome hats in Oblivion who were so focused on their own glee of 'creative killings' and couldn't even see what was happening within their own ranks.

But again, it's just my opinion on the matter.

Why does everyone have something against dark cults dammit? I hope Bethesda adds the DB everyone wants in SKyrim, along with a dark cult organization so other people can join. Don't get me wrong, I disliked the cheery DB, but I loved the Sithis worshiping and stuff.

Hmm... DB was a lot of fun, but I preferred the Morag Tong as they were more of an actual assassin's guild than a religious cult - cold, calculating individuals who practice their art for the money, and the thrill of the hunt. So I'd say both.