I only really experienced the DB in OB but I've gained a fair understanding of how it was back in the olden games. I liked the intial interaction. Lucien visiting you in your sleep, and the tales of past jobs gone weird, but yeah. take out the dark spiritualist level and the best bits are still there. I'd imagine the Nords aren't an overtly spiritual bunch of folk.

May I ask, what is so wrong with their members being upbeat?

I think both would be great especially after what happened in Morrowind.

I hope that both these guilds are included as competing guilds one legal one not legal with come quests that send you to kill the other guilds leaders

I prefer the Morag Tong becasue they are legal. But I would like to see them both. But according to lore I'm sure it will most likely be just the DB.

That doesn't make any sense. Why does an assassination organisation have to be legal or else unrespectable crazies? Illegal organisations are the only cool ones. If it's legal to assassinate people, it takes all the thrill out of it. Boring.
"Hi, I've been assigned to kill this guy."
"Well, you do have expressed written permission from our authorities. I guess we can't stop you without getting in huge trouble with the government ourselves. Go ahead."

Does it? Why's that then?

I'd like to see both - with the choice to join one or the other.

The Morag Tong was exclusive to Morrowind, and legally sanctioned by the government. Unless the refugees from MW see a need to revive this practice(And get it sanctioned by the Skyrim gov), it is likely that the the Morag Tong will no longer exist.

Lore wise; The Tong existed as a legal guild in Morrowind, this is why they had so much power because their activities were legal and they had, "get out of jail free cards." However outside of Morrowind, they are illegal just like the Dark Brotherhood.

Now take into account that Black Marsh successfully invaded Morrowind, forcing many Dunmer to flee to Solstheim. Going on a theory I posted here earlier, The Morag Tong has to be either severely weakened or possibly outright destroyed. The Dark Brotherhood, possibly grew more powerful with their main rival out of the picture, and with Argonians who are born under the sign of the Shadow are presented to the Dark Brotherhood serving for life. There is a good chance Black Marsh employed the Dark Brotherhood extensively during the invasion.

But as I said before, I'm going on my own theory with the lore.

Both! They could be rivals... This could tie into the whole Imperialist/Separatist dynamic. Perhaps for some reason, the Dark brotherhood would prefer that the Empire remain in control of Skyrim, while Morag Tong doesn't.

Wuts da difrense

Morag Tong are "honorable" assassins while the Dark Brotherhood are sadistic dark Sithis worshiping and entrail devouring assassins. But they are cheesy in terms of smiles and happyness.

i chose the brotherhood because i just like the whole cold blooded killer thing

While I'd prefer a Dark Brotherhood,I'd rather it be more centered about actual assassinations and money like in Daggerfall,but still have a bit about the occultist stuff.Maybe there could be a small shrine in the Sanctuary where a few loons rant and rave about Sithis,the night mother and the listener but most (mainly new) members in there would think they are crazy and would steer clear of them.

Why would the DB want a stabilizing force? If you have read anything, they enjoyed the greatest amount of business when there was no imperial government between the fall of the 2nd empire and the rise of Tiber Septim. The Dark Brotherhood would see much more business if everyone was separate and not unified under a single banner. Plus, they'll kill just about anyone and work for just about anyone, for a price.

Also, the Morag Tong would be heavily weakened due to the Red Year and argonian invasion. In addition, it's very likely they were hunted down upon entering Skyrim by not only the Dark Brotherhood, but the government(s) of Skyrim. They no longer have Vivec giving them special protection of legally murdering members of Great Houses, with occasional BS writs (aka gray writs). Not to mention the MT lived in pretty open accommodations, never having to live as an underground organization. They were nothing but killers who lived out in the open, while the DB has been successfully living underground since the fall of the Reman empire, and have more experience honing their skills in the silent arts of killing.

At this point, the Morag Tong are completely illegal everywhere, and with the dunmer becoming nothing but refugees, holding onto an assassins guild would likely cause more harm than good, especially if members of the Morag Tong were caught. It would give a good reason for city leaders to remove the dunmer refugees. Also, inter-warfare would do nothing but weaken the dunmer more and more.

It doesn't matter how many gloves you collect you won't have a uniform, and was that even the main quest? I thought it was just something you could do on the side if you wanted.


That doesn't say that the Morag Tong didn't operate when there was open warfare, or that they would be cannon fodder if there was open warfare again. It just says that now that there is no more open warfare, the employing the Morag Tong is the only legal way to engage in fighting.

There's one difference in the two, and that's pride. The Brotherhood are the death cult, the Tong were peace-brokers. They'd kill, if a dispute couldn't be settled, or Chimeri tradition was endangered. That's why they were sanctioned to kill, because the family was more important, than a rebellious life. The Brotherhood murder, because they get a horn from it. And they call that Sithis.


I still say they're both trash, and these organized killers death cults are as despicable in fiction, as they are in life. [censored] em all.

One member, supposedly, ate the entrails of Lachance. They are also a guild who use forms on intimidation, rumours can be a effective way of keeping people in line. So once again I ask, why is it cheesy that someone who wears dark clothing and lives life as an assassin be forced to be unhappy?

Morag Tong. I like being an assassin but I'm plagued by this pesky conscience, and all that "let the dark mother wrap you in her cold embrace" stuff gave me the creeps.

But saddly the Morag Tong is a Morrowind thing, so there most likely wouldn't be a chapter in Skyrim. I suppose they could come up with an explanation for one to be there but it would probably seem somewhat contrived.

Only in Morrowind (the country not the game), but if they are both included (heres hoping) I hope you can only join one with one character, to add replay value, and the questline should be taking down the other assassins guild

Yeah, pride always seemed a bit rubbish to me. Causes a lot of trouble in the world. Same with tradition. But I think you need not get so choked up about organised killings in fiction. It's not reality. It can't harm anyone. TES is a violent series, if you don't like amoral things in fiction, you shouldn't be playing these games, because there's plenty of it.

Every guild in ES involves killing in some form

im laughing at the people who keep posting that you had to show your writs to the guards in order to assassinate people or get away. i highly suggest playing a pure mage or warrior character next time cause as an assassin..........YOU svck! the point is that you arent supposed to get caught and if i remember correctly you received bonuses for not using them.

most of the dark brotherhood missions in oblivion were guard free. the pirate was on board his ship and if the other pirates saw you no guards chased after you. the guy that you dropped the statue on in his house, even if the servant caught you (you would have to be really bad if that happened) no guards were alerted outside. for the llewayin mission where you had to poison the guy and fake his death the guards actually helped you if the other assassin attacked you outside of his house. no guards around the applebees family members except for the one that was an actual guard and you could get her to attack you. no guards in the mission where you had to kill all the people in the house. if anything the oblivion assassination quests were super easy albeit entertaining. at least in morrowind i had to hunt them down as i didnt have a magical compass showing me where they were.

From what I have read, it seems that both would be the best option. This allows players to play as stealth based and gives other options as well.

Somehow I don't think Skyrim is going to be civilised enough for organised, legal, assassin guilds. If the Tong is there I expect them to be kind of a satelite, setting up kind of organisation. I just hope they do the assassin angle some justice. Oblivion had a fantastic DB questline but the mechanics of offing someone lacked.