Ah yes, I forgot about that Hortator business.

Why are we even talking about this though? House Telvanni isn't destroyed... Hell Telvanni seems to be doing okay from the limited info you get in Skyrim. I wouldn't worry to much about them, at least not the cool one's.

Dunmer are nothing but D bags. They would get smashed by the Dominion. They need to focus on rebuilding a civilization that isnt so doooouuuuche

The Dunmer have Divayth Fyr, which automatically makes them badass. (I'm not quite sure what having Vivec makes them, though.) On the other hand, the Redguards do have Cyrus...

I wouldn't mind the presence of two pariah folks. We can have a whole AhjiraGalbedirLeyawiin love-hate relationship, with corrupted elves! One big eyebrow fight

things that i love about the lore forum: a dunmer really devoted fan post (god we got way too many of those, i love it the most when they refer to the dunmer as "we") is followed (after some scolding for beeing unreasonable) by a somewhat interresting lore discussion.

walk like us until we walk like you
or some strange mishmash

yes i know guys. this is all subjective.its all mostly my opinion.and no i actually like argonians. i dont actually think the dunmer are superior, just that they deserve some more credit. i like every race in the elder scrolls. despite being exiled from the summerset isles for their affinity for daedra i do still see them as a more noble meric race(other than orcs whom i love). altmer are far more ethnocentric in general and have done far more damage than the dunmer to peace in tamriel.bosmer are generally hedenistic and barbaric. there are a lot of virtues i admire about the dark elves. their respect for their ancestors, their fierce loyalties. but more often i like individual characters who are dark elves. Divayth Fyr, The Khan of the Urshilaku, Athyn Serethi, Modryn Oreyn, Aryon. Yes I still think ordinators and Almalexia's Hands could contend for deadliest warriors. No i dont want dunmer to rule tamriel, theyre not fit. In fact if id like to say i like the imperials just as much as the dunmer.
i just wanted to vent my frustrations at their fate. i dont think they deserved the invasion of argonians. yeah i said it. i would have respected the argonians a hell of a lot more and ROOTED for them if they had attacked the Dres while slavery was still legal and won.
i want to see the dunmer challenge the thalmor with the empire as part of it. if the empire doesnt exist when they challenge them, all the better. Screw the Thalmor.

yes i love the dunmer. you cant change my mind. no the nereverine was not a saxhleel, or a nord. blasphemous. play it again as a dunmer and youve played the real story.(hate mail invite anyone..OoO).

...maybe some people like being spit upon
Anyways, the adoration that so many people hold for the Dunmer has more to do with the fact that they're a unique and very fleshed-out society/culture in a fascinatingly alien world. How they act doesn't have too much to do with it, although if anything the gruff, cold badass image their habitual rudeness displays just makes people think they're all the cooler, nevermind that the rudeness is directed at them.

The dunmer are like the stereotypical http://www.hotflick.net/flicks/2001_Not_Another_Teen_Movie/2001_Not_Another_Teen_212.jpg from a high school movie, the players are their posse.

same could be said for the argonians.

i like them both but the crowds around certain races are getting rediculous.
Isnt one of the central themes of TES the love for the story itself and not for a certain part of it?

My love for TES is the millieu of it. So far, in my opinion, Morrowind had the best setting. The people are the story, without a hero there is no event, yadda yadda.

well guys. im new to the forums but im happy to see so much rebuke on one topic. i had some discrepancies, thanks for telling me how it is.

You can't play Morrowind as a Dunmer, you can play it as a Dark Elf but that's as close as you are going to get... And in many ways Dark elf foreigners are worse then any other foreigner.

The first time I played Morrowind I did so as a Dunmer, and when I heard the "I'm sure you'll fit right in." line, I thought he was being serious because I was playing a Dunmer.

Orientalism all over again. I agree though. No true Dunmer liked Helseth.

Ok that doesnt make any sense. if this is some reference to that "morrowind lore" conversation pick, where you find out that dunmer hate outlanders, especially foreign born dunmer.. i never had an issue. errbody loved me in the end. Hell I had Berrel Sala(I know i just destroyed the actual spelling of his name) the chief ranking ordinator on vvardenfell tucked into my belt. Why? I joined the temple. Cant go wrong there. Even though i was a telvanni. But a Telvanni ArchcanonMagister, who also happened to be a Primate of the Imperial Cult, and an N'wah Outlander S'wit of a heretical Nereverine. Dispositon Sala: 100. Before Vivec's Pardon and post his declaration of me as a heretic(paradox anyone). BOO YA you and your "cant play as dunmer"..

I AM THE DUNMER....(Im not serious)

Helseth was much more insidious than any Imperial in my opinion. It's like he was so determined to deny his Dunmer blood that he didn't just practice ruthless political tactics but went out of his way to destroy traditional Dunmer society.

I can only imagine the smile on his face when he heard of the deaths of Ayem and Seht, and he probably ripped those clipped ears of his after he heard Vehk was gone too. At least he didn't have free reign over the country for long.

But Helseth is Barenziah's son.
And at the time of Tribunal, Barenziah is still very much alive.
I dont really think Helseth has that much to say, I think it is all bluff and bluster.
I dont think his mother, after all that time and all she witnessed and went through, would release any hold she might have.
Barenziah is a master politician.
Helseth, like the son of Potema, I think they only exist as extensions of their mothers really.

Maybe she died at Red Year, but I think quite likely not. As Terry Pratchett′s Cohen the Barbarian, surviving is a habit you get good at with age.
Similarly I also think Fyr is still alive.

No one is trying to change your mind about how you feel about the dunmer. But other people have just as much right to not like the dunmer and have just as much right to express their opinion as you do yours. (I like the dunmer culture a lot for the record, but I do find the fanboyishness and the "OMG Dunmer are teh uber sixxxxay!" around them annoying sometimes).

By your definition of playing a game properly, does that mean that anyone who doesn't play Skyrim as a Nord is not playing "the real story"? Are you playing as a Nord? If not, do you feel you are not getting the real story because of it? I played Morrowind 3 times as three different characters: a Dunmer, a Breton and an Altmer. I wouldn't say that any one character felt more right than the other two.

Yeah. I feel like the real story behind Morrowind is that the Nerevarine was a Dark Elf. And the hero behind Skyrim was a Nord. Oblvion could be anything.

It might make more sense that the Nerevarine should be a dark elf. But I remember when I played as a dark elf, if anything I felt more out of place than as a Breton or Altmer. I think it's because even if you are a Dunmer, you still got called "outlander" and it was still pointed out by characters that you were a foreigner. I expected to fit in more, so when my character still didn't, it seemed more jarring. I think if anything, that's why I liked my playthrough as a dunmer the least of the three.

At least in Skyrim, other Nords do seem to be friendlier to the player if you choose to play a nord. (I've played now as a Nord and an Altmer).

I'm on the position that an imperial could make a pretty decent nerevarine. That poetic sense of "Aha, the gods are playing a joke. Let's learn a lesson in swallowing pride, yadayada." Then there's that whole meta-thing with it REALLY being a joke, or rather, some super obtuse scheme by Azura.

Oblivion could be any race, i think. More of a stop-evil adventure story, rather than a prophecy-test. Or was it? Hum.