The fate of the Dunmer has been a thorn in my gameplay of Skyrim. Refugees, outcasts, criminals, and worst of all Necromancers!!! Is this the fate of the millennia old velothi to whom Tiber Septim himself was forced to defer to a treaty with? And at the peak of his power! And as powerful as the heretic Tribunal was I dont believe it was just because of them that Tiber Septim offered the truce. In fact I believe its the book the Eastern Provinces that it states of all the peoples of Tamriel the Imperials dreaded the Dark elves the most because of their fanaticism. True, Argonia wasnt invaded but thats because its a filthy marsh, not because the mighty legions of Talos feared the Argonians, yeah right, but because the cost of invading an endless bog outweighed the profit. I digress.

But really, why? The Nerevarine arrives and cleans up a huge mess. Ends the blight, humbles the Tribunal, exhalts the Ashlanders, defeats the Dark Brotherhood in Vvardenfell, the list goes on. Slavery ends after thousands of years. Big deal for the Dunmer. Then Oblivion opens. Then The Ministry of Truth falls, detonates, Red Mountain the Super Volcano erupts, decimates everything you played in in Morrowind. Now my favorite part. The Argonians invade Morrowind. "Huzzah!" says all the lizard loving fans...me: "Pathetic".

So after thousands of years, the "Almighty" Argonians lead a heroic assault into Morrowind, after freaking Armageddon assaults the Dunmer. Sweet. Im singing
"Proud to be an Argonian". I mean I get it. They were slaves. But slavery officially ended.

Whats the plan for the Dunmer. Extinction? Thats sad. Barring slavery we have the proudest, bravest, and most respectable elven race alive(orcs too). I mean I like wood elves but you think the skittish cannibalistic imps would stand a chance against a troupe of Almalexia's Hands. Hell the Redoran or the Telvanni would be scary. United they were able to take on the Dwemer, Orcs, and Nords. Made the Nords run away with their tails between their legs.
And High elves. The Altmer would be fools to attack the Dunmer head on. And here's another question. Do you think Dunmer would join the Aldmeri Dominion willingly? NO. Why cause theyre elves? Theyre elves but theyre Dunmer. Velothi. Daedra worshippers. They dont care. I would love to see a strong Dunmer force take on the Dominion.
Here again I think there are compelling reasons to believe the destruction of the Dark elves was sabotage by the Thalmor. That the eruption was the result of subterfuge(Infernal City, Lord of Souls). That the invasion by lizards was instigated. Why? Because the Dark Elves, more than likely Telvanni, are a threat to the Thalmor. Make no mistake Dunmer are highly intelligent articulate creatures. Dumac and Nerevar were best friends. Could the Thalmor do anything that Master Fyr or Balladas Demnevani couldnt? Theyd be hard put to.

There are so many reasons why I respect the Dark elves over many other races(I respect the Empire and Imperials). TES3 was such a masterpiece narrative of a unique and awesome fantasy elf people. I dont want to see them extinct, or in the dark. Theyre dark elves but they dont have to be in the dark. Dude there are so many dunmer necromancers in Skyrim?! What happened to the "NO NECROMANCY,HONOR THINE ANCESTOR!" attitude?

Dark elves. Turn some heads. Kick some ass. Some major Thalmor ass.

So they wouldn't fear the only race that completely kicked Dagon's ass during the Oblivion Crisis?

I understand you like the Dunmer and they're your favorite race and Morrowind was a good game and whatever, but the Dunmer aren't these super-people you're making them out to be. They were generally deplorable people. You can find just as much resilience and power and intelligence among all the other races of Tamriel. Give credit where credit is due.

They're not going to become extinct. That's silly. Bethesda knows how popular they are and they wouldn't do such a thing, but the Dunmer people needed a good kick in the pants for a long time and that's exactly what they got.

First of all, the Velothi weren't as noble as you might think. They left Alinor to worship Daedra. The Tribunal then lead the Chimer further astray when they broke their oath to Nerevar and stole the power of the Heart. That created the famed Dunmer and a lot of their culture.

Furthermore, it was the Nerevarine's actions that damned the Dunmer to near extinction. His clean-up only created a small window of peace for Morrowind before Vehk's power waned, and Lie Rock crashed causing the Red Year.

Look I love Morrowind, but the Dunmer were never good at anything besides defending themselves, they aren't an invading force to be reckoned with. They never conquered anything except for parts of Resdyan of course, and they managed to resist a lot of invasions because well primarily three gods walking amongst them.

The fall of the Tribunal alone, especially without the Nerevarine present, would be enough to send most nations like that into chaos. The rest that came after just made it worse. The Argonians could still have invaded without the Red Year, there was just never a better time then during that year, and regardless of when the invasion would have happened they would likely have had some successes, less then now of course but they would have gotten somewhere. Also the chances of the Dunmer and the Altmer ever going in a full on war are relatively small, and if it does happen I would be hesitant to point to a victor. If Morrowind would unite, perhaps they could hold the dominion back, but they would never be able to force the Dominion back to Summerset... No matter how much you would wish it. There isn't a single race in TES that's almighty all powerful or capable of beating anyone and everyone. The Dunmer were just the closest thing when the Tribunal was still around.


To be fair, Telvanni apparantly closed gates left and right rather easily as well... At least according to NPC's in Oblivion

Cry me a river.

To be fair, the Dunmer really don't ever seem to give a flip about anything anyway, so the topic title is fairly accurate. Red Year was a swift kick in the ass for the Dunmer, and they had it a long time coming. Nerevarine just set the wheels in motion for their insolence.

Baby steps.
Before you take on the Dominion try taking back a town or something in Morrowind.
Maybe the Dumner in Solstheim are made of sterner stuff than the Dumner in Windhelm and plan on doing just that.I hope so.

but yeah baby steps

Actually, the dunmer of Solstheim are doing quite well, as there was a noble family who ruled a portion of Solstheim in Lord of Souls. However, they were VERY disenfranchised by the Great Houses.

Also, the nords of Solstheim are not like the nords of Skyrim.

I don't think we're talking about virtues or nobility here. Dunmer will always be bad-ass.

They're just going through a bad patch.

A national hangover. Their Tribunal died... More like a metaphysical comedown, after a cracking party.

I dunno, I loved the Dunmer, and I still found this turn of events fitting and awesome.

I swear you people will only be happy when the Dunmer collectively CHIM out, steamroll across Nirn, and finally ascend to beat Aka in arm-wrestling.

Srsly. It's almost as bad as Drow fetishism.

dude

Drow are hot and badass

It's what drove me to prefer the Saxhleel.

Hey now, why some forms of Necromancy may be looked down upon, I believe Dunmer resort to it primarily due to strong family bonds. They revere their dead more than any other Mer and use light forms of Necromancy in order to communicate or provide ancestor guardians. Upon reading a book in Skyrim, they don't do this much anymore since it is much looked down upon in Skyrim.

Don't even get my started on Drows. I had this D&D obsessed roommate a few years back, and once when I was playing Oblivion I mentioned Dreughs, but I used to pronounce it "dreau", and this guy goes crazy spouting all this D&D nonsense about dark elves and TES Dunmer. It broke his heart when I told him I was actually referring to a metamorphosed squid-man.

But yeah. I don't know why there's such a religious following behind the Dunmer with fans. Most of the Dunmer in Morrowind were jackasses, and it felt like one cultural uphill battle.

"I'm sure you'll fit right in" Biggest lie ever told in Morrowind. The first part of that game is nothing but "go away outlander" and "you filthy n'wah!" It truly surprises me that people could actually like the Dunmer after being spit on so much throughout the game. Then there's the Ordinators... There's no word to describe the level of irony when Ordinators wearing the face of Nerevar insult and attack the reincarnation of their spiritual progenitor. And they all collectively blow their o rings when you wear their armor. There's nothing more proper than for Nerevar to wear his face, and... well if they only knew.

All the nations and peoples of Tamriel have waxed and waned in power and influence over the eras. Just because the Dunmer have taken some bloody hits doesn't mean they'll never recover.

On Morrowind, not The Eastern Provinces, comments on Dunmer fanaticism. Incidentally, the full quote, in context, is:

The generals of the legions had dreaded an invasion of Morrowind. The Dunmer were widely regarded as the most dreadful and fanatic foes, further inspired by their Temple and clan traditions. The generals had not grasped the political weaknesses of Morrowind, which Emperor Tiber Septim recognized and exploited. At the same time, given the tragic depopulation and destruction experienced by the other provinces conquered by Septim, and the swift and efficient assimilation of Morrowind into the Imperial legal systems and economy, with relatively small impact on lower or upper classes of Morrowind's citizens, the Tribunal also deserves some credit for recognizing the hopelessness of Morrowind's defense, and the chance of gaining important concessions at the treaty table by being the first to offer peace.

So, while fanaticism (as perceived by the Empire) was a factor, it wasn't necessarily the only one.

My understanding of the Ministry of Truth's landfall is that it was caused entirely by Sul's sabotage and driven by personal issues, not anything to do with the Thalmor. That said, according to the author of Rising Threat the Thalmor were responsible for inciting the Argonian invasion:

While Morrowind and the Imperial forces in Black Marsh were still reeling from the consecutive catastrophes of the Oblivion Crisis and the destruction of Vvardenfell, the Thalmor incited the Argonians to mount a massive uprising. Black Marsh and southern Morrowind were completely lost to the Argonians, but luckily the Thalmor too lost what influence they had over the reptilians.

But that doesn't mean they feared the Dunmer, so much as saw an opportunity to further weaken the Empire and a potential foe.

According to whose standards? Their own? Other races'? Yours? Mine?

And proud of what? Their ancestry? Their heritage? Then they're hardly unique or exceptional among mer; Altmer sailors, for example, affix to their vessels http://www.imperial-library.info/content/rise-and-fall-aldmeri-dominion

Bravery is a rather personal attribute and awfully diffucult to institutionalize, let alone ascribe to an entire race of millions of mer. Is simple farmer who flees at the screams of a cliffracer showing cowardice, and is he therefore less of a Dunmer?

Respectable? What exceptional things have they done to deserve respect beyond all other mer?

Well, yes. Of course. Valenwoods' terrain and the Bosmer affinity for archery easily lends itself to guerrilla tactics, and it's not like they lack mages.

Becaues Dunmer aren't a monolithic bloc of clones who always adhere exactly to idealized mores. Note that these necromancers are found in the wilds, on mountaintops, and sulking in caves. It's not like they're flaunting their arts in the Grey Quarter. I doubt there would be nearly as many (if any) necromancers on Slothsheim, thanks to the higher population density and greater probability of getting caught and summarily impaled.

On the bright side, Bethesda legitimately reconstructed their own version of the Dark Elf Rogue-thing. Granted, it took several games and two novels (or at least their premise) to crush their noble society and set them on the path to thiefdom.
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me too!


me too!

I think Skyrim necromancy is different than Morrowinds. Necromancy there consisted of summoning the dead. Skyrim is consists of reanimating corpses around you, so I think it'd be okay.

And...I agree with this thread. On every point. I love you for this.

Maybe but only because of their Cthuluesque Hist masters. They're on my list after the Thalmor. I like the Argonains in game but loathe the Hist.

Oh come off it! If I have a favourite race it's the Dunmer but they're not perfect. Their culture is/was rich, powerful, and proud...but it spawned a race of [censored]. They're not the superior mer either let alone the superior race. The orsimer have been through all sorts of [censored] throughout the years and are stronger for it. The bosmer are the best archers in tamriel and have been pushed around by their own kind on more then one occasion but have persevered. The altmer are masters of the arcane and have been a bastion of civilisation since...ages!

Also, anyone saying that the Dunmer deserved the eruption of red mountain and the argonian invasion is being a bit silly. How can an entire culture deserve that kind of a catastrophe?
Not to say they didn't bring the argonian invasion on themselves in many ways, but while I understand why the argonians did it that dosen't make it morally right.

Holy hell that's a lot of fanboyism for the Dunmer.

Spoilers: other races exist and have done things too.

Spoilers: We just like the Dunmer more.

Seen any elves lately?

We got a long, hard look at Dunmer culture, just before the foundations that culture had been based upon for thousands of years were destroyed. After the Nerevarine, Dunmer society would have radically changed; the world we saw in Morrowind would be gone now, anyway.

Some Dunmer survive, bearing a heavy load of tragedy. (Which, I think, is an interesting perspective from which to role-play.)

A recurring theme in the Elder Scrolls is choosing mortality over immortality. What do you suppose it is that groups like the Thalmor or the Mythic Dawn wish to escape?

Their wishes are echoes of the Aldmer, who felt gypped by Lorkhan for supposedly taking away their immortality, which in itself was just a hollow perk of living in Aetherius with no definable shape. They blamed Lorkhan for it, even though Lorkhan just wanted to create the ultimate state of being, CHIM. Of course not even Lorkhan could pull it off, probably because he had no failures use as stair steps, so when his grand design failed in its prime motive, he was killed for it, and the Aldmer were the most deeply distraught and frantically built Towers to try and climb back up to Aetherius after the ship had long left.

Those existential pains echoed long into the future where the Mythic Dawn wished to remove the Maybe from the Gray Maybe and create a Padomaic realm out of Nirn, ushering in a return to the Dawn, when they were all et'Ada.

The Thalmor want to return to that same point of origin, and they think they can do it by killing Man and Talos, that is to say the evidence of mortality and Lorkhan's actions. If they can kill Talos they can unmake Nirn, thinking that it would return them all to a state of formless immortality before their ancestors willingly gave it up to join Lorkhan.