I know this has nothing to do with the forum but do you think that the Dark elves deserve to get invaded by black marsh? Incase you dont know what im talking about in the beggining of the 4th era. Argonians invaded morrowind after the reuption of the red mountain. It caused the death of most of the dummer and forced the rest to live in Chedyinhall county and Skyrim as refugees.

Also. I noticed that I made a typo at the title..

They deserved it as far as I'm concerned. What would have made it even better is if Elsewyre got a little revenge too, there were plenty of Khajiiti slaves on Vvardenfell besides the lizards.

Even in fantasy -- where it may or may not be more valid a view depending on the setting -- I tend not to view an entire species as some kind of single-willed entity. So I'd consider the individual fates of individual Dunmer; brave, noble Dunmer will have been maimed and killed by cruel, greedy Argonians during the invasion - just as brutal, racist Dunmer will have been killed by brave, noble Argonians. And it's all gloriously subjective.

So my answer is: some of 'em deserved it, some of 'em didn't. The fact that it happened is all a pragmatic hero needs to know.

If you ask me, it's simply several millennia of karma coming back to bite them. That the last 400 years was spent illegally raiding Black Marsh and urinating on the Imperials' ideas of freedom only makes it worse.

They should have spent less time calling all other races inferior and spending more time learning of what the Imperials' ancestors had done to the Ayleids.

Edit: It's true that many of them weren't like this, but overall their culture pretty much set them up for this. With a little help from Sheogorath.

Edit2: And ironically, it's been implied that this may greatly improve their relationship with their other ancient enemies, the Nords.

Yes, the Dunmers deserved it. Slavery, anti-Imperialism and they nearly hunted down all vampires in Morrowind to extinction. Now Morrowind blew up and the Argonians came and sacked everything. And as we all know, the Dunmer fled to Solshteim(In the Fourth Era). Hirine might be preparing his Hounds for a next hunt! Dunmer meat this time! Ha!

Well I do understand why they hunted vampires because they are a threat but it was no neccesary to do the rest.

Fearless Hero strikes the closest here, I think. You really can't say an entire race deserved something. Anyway, in nature and in history, whether or not someone deserves something is completely irrelevant. Bad things happen to good people and good things happen to bad people.

When you start assigning or denying blame, you start to dig yourself into a deep hole.

I blame their culture. When your culture pretty much says all other races are inferior, their ways are inferior, and that there's nothing the Empire or the Argonians can do about illegally kidnapping Argonians from Black Marsh, it's to be expected that there will be trouble when the Argonians finally have the means to get revenge.

Definitely this. It's all way too convoluted.

And if I recall there was a slaver in (Sadrith Mora?) who was a male Bosmer and he sold slaves that included Bretons, Khajiits, Argonians, and some other non-beast races I can't recall. But the point is that it wasn't just the Dunmer who were profiting. And they're already a 'cursed' race after all, I can't say they deserved abandonment by Vivec and which led their whole country to be annihilated by a floating moon and then forced to take refuge on a frozen island belonging to the Nords, who as I recall aren't all too fond of elves.

Am I the only one that finds is slightly creepy, if not downright disturbing that so many people would find (fictional) genocide and mass slaughter justified? Like, under any circumstances? I know this is a fantasy game and all, but really, the dunmer deserved it?

Personally I think it was a horrific thing that was written into the book's story (and I do expect we were meant to find it horrific) a whole vibrant, ancient culture we had grown intimate with wiped out almost the brink of extinction. In a story setting, that's about the worst thing that could be inflicted, isn't it?

about the only thing worse is a setting-wipe. Anyway, I gotta agree with Vincent, genocide and the decimation of an entire race can't really be justified. Though at least the dark elves still have a chance of rebuilding.

It's more that they find the Argonians' retaliation was not unjustified. From their perspective, for millennia nothing stopped the Dunmer from coming to Black Marsh, kidnapping Argonians from their home, then taking them in chains back to Morrowind. The Argonians couldn't stop it previously and Morrowind was too strong for retaliation. Not even the Empire could stop it. When the Empire withdrew and the Dunmer were down on their luck, the Argonians were finally able to put an end to it once and for all, as well as the chance for many former slaves to get some payback for the injustices they suffered.

Not entirely true. There were Argonians like the Archeins who enslaved their fellows, looking to profit from the trade with Morrowind. I wonder when they are going to get their comeuppance?

Well, they did stop it, albeit indirectly. When the Empire and Morrowind drew up the treaty of Morrowind's annexation as a province, one of the provisions was that slavery be allowed to continue. However, another one of the provisions--that a king of Morrowind be crowned to act on the Empire's behalf within the province--eventually proved to be the smarter stipulation. It was, after all, King Helseth and his allies who ended the slave trade, which provoked the civil war in Morrowind that we hear about in Oblivion.

Slavery had already been outlawed for quite a time by this point though, hadn't it?

So I suppose, in a real life parable, it would be "just" for the African continent to inflict similar acts of genocide on the guilty European and American states, in the present day? Slavery and mass-murder are the two worst things a nation could possibly do, but one never justifies the other, both are awful, right? Of course this is a fantasy world and nothing to be taken that seriously, but to me the whole history of Argonia and Morrowind reads like a list of tragedies, I think it's meant to. The Argonians never deserved slavery and the Dunmer did not deserve to be almost wiped out by the the events of the Red Year, and to lose their homeland that was so sacred to them.

On the plus side, it makes a Dark Elf a very interesting character to play in Skyrim, with lots of juicy potential for an emotive back story.

I thought The Infernal City was terrible and am pissed that its canon.

I love how everyone's justifications for "They deserve it" revolve around slavery. I don't think they deserved it, mainly because the entire race wasn't a bunch of slavers, and even those who did own/sale/buy slaves has no bearing on them other than the institution they involve themselves in and it certainly doesnt justify the destruction of a culture and race so rich. I can think of sooo many more things worse and deserving of destruction than slavery.

I just don't like elves.

TES isn't real life. Morrowind had been enslaving Argonians not just for a few centuries but for millennia; they were the Argonians' oldest and most persistent enemies. Even the Empire, which opposed slavery and outlawed raiding Black Marsh, couldn't do anything about it. Up until a few years before Red Year, absolutely nothing was stopping their illegal slave raids. What did you expect them to do, just hope that the Dunmer decide to never enslave them again? Or simply raid them and hope that they don't take revenge when they recover? Yes, it's considered barbaric and unjustifiable in our modern culture, but to the primitive Argonians the only way to ensure the Dunmer don't someday resume their slave raids is to wipe out Morrowind.

Join the club.


is there anyone who both knows very much about the Lore and likes the merish view more?

Sleign maybe. I know he loves the Aleyids, but not sure about their mythic view.

It seems quite a lot of people are very fond of the Dunmer, but their ideologies are an exception to the merish norm, as far as I know.

Then again, I find the dunmer are the most liked, because they're this IP's dark elves, and they were presented best in Morrowind.

While eld...elven skulls make great additions to the skull throne, the nature of these deaths is not very sporting at all. Now if only we had used the Red Year as a sacrifice to Khorne, rather than letting it go to waste. Oh well, can always corrupt the inquistion to calling exterminatus in the name of Chaos.

I'll just convert the dunmer to Nurgle, or offer them as sacrifices. Losing their homeland to a slave race, and becoming refugees should cause the once proud dunmer to a great depression.