It really sounds like you don't like RGP's.

Look. I complain about people not reading because reading and listening is part of interacting with the game world. I complain about it when the game makes it obvious why things are the way they are. But you know what? If this was CoD or Ultra Zombie Dead Rising or something equally [censored], I would sit down and shut the [censored] up. But Fallout isn't. This is an RPG, not an FPS. Part of interacting with the game is reading what your character would read, listening to the people your character would listen to.

I'm just fine with a game asking me to read, as long as it doesn't want me to read a novella to progress.

And as for giving information properly, Fallout is actually very good about that. Lots of graffiti, relevant companion comments, and if you look, the game is telling a story in the placement of the loot and traps. You can not read the notes if you want, that's fine. But do NOT click through dialog and make sure to read the notes before complaining about things not making sense.

-Nukeknockout

Yea. [censored] that [censored]. :gun:

I can appreciate where you're coming from, but from a game design point, if people are missing pieces of information, or saying things aren't obvious, then it doesn't matter how much conviction you (as a designer) put into "but I thought it was obvious" it evidently wasn't obvious. The person that crafts the experience needs to try to see things as the player would.

Nuke, you're obviously one of the few with enough tollerance to see things through or of a particular mindset that you enjoy such activities. See, this is why immersion enjoyment and ultimately engagement are paramount in a game. Take the elder scrolls series, or even fallout 3, or hell, even the main game of FNV. Buggy as hell but you put up with it (or maybe don't even notice it) because everything else was so enjoyable.
Dead money was a chore, which meant that when one of those bugs cropped up you were less willing to suspend your disbelief, and the same can be said for the text dumps. Sure, talking to the characters was good fun, but talk about an exposition dump. 2 long conversations a piece and the rest was messing around in the crappy environ that was the Sierra Madre.
Lots of hidden nodes of information? In Old World Blues I relished the challenge to find everything, because so much personality was dripping from the scenary. Sierra Madre I was just bored. Not worried, scared, fearful, tense or any of the other emotions they failed to invoke, just bored. And utterly unengaged, so each failing was more evident than any other.

I have no patience for that DLC and it's done nothing to earn it from me.

Don't see what the big problem is.
Dead Money created unique challenges for the player to overcome and it's suddenly a bad thing?
I guess just running and gunning through a DLC is better than new gameplay features. :rolleyes:

If you get the hang of how the new challenges work then you can pass them with ease.
Only way you can get annoyed as hell because of them is if you refuse to learn them.
No really, if you actually take your time to figure out how to adapt to the new gameplay then it's easy to avoid, destroy, disable or ignore the speakers/radios.
If you never learn from your mistakes and refuse to adapt to the new gameplay then it doesn't mean the DLC is bad, it means it's your own fault for getting pissed off at them.

Just enter Dead Money, figure out what causes the radio signals for the collar, scout the areas, take it piece by piece and study the puzzles and then overcome them, go forward a little, listen to the collar beeping, look across the area, when the beeping is getting too intense take a step back and try to figure out where it could be, try another route, look from a different angle.
It's that easy.

Seriously, the only way I can think of how people can get annoyed at them is that they want to rush the DLC, it's meant to be slow paced.
If you rush it, you aren't going to take the time necessary to study the pattern of the signals which means you'll die a lot and make you angry.
And if you don't like slow paced gameplay then the DLC isn't for you, it's not a bad DLC, it's just not something you'll be able to enjoy.

I love Dead Money, I still think it's too SAW for Fallout but out of every DLC so far it's been the best gameplay wise.

BUT, there is two locations where the placement of the signals are unforgiving and that's in the vault.
I still haven't learned their patterns and die a crapload when I go down there.
So those were badly designed, the rest on the other hand I could handle with ease.

[edit]

Oh and this is specifically for those complaining about the collar and speakers.



And for me it was the opposite, OWB was dull and just felt like a chore whereas Dead Money's environment was intruiging(?) and fun.
The scarce supplies and the deadly enemies made the combat and survival atmosphere very tense and the ghosts scared the crap out of me.

OWB was the worst DLC of them all for me. :mellow:

I just don't get it. The first time I played Dead Money, I was playing the game the third time through... getting achievements. I was 27th level I believe. I was playing Hard Core as well. So, I did find the fact that I was never at full health to be challenging... but I can honestly say I never died. It took me a while, because I'm a creep and seek player... I always tend to take my time and be over cautious. This seemed to fit right in to the game play required to get through Dead Money. Of course, I also wasn't collecting everything and stashing it the first time through (the second time through with another build, everything I could pick up went into the fire hose box by the entrance). I also didn't try for the gold the first time through. But even with the traps and death clouds, I managed to stay alive. I found it to be written well.

The writing and atmosphere are brilliant but the gameplay is just... frustrating, to say the least.

First time going through I played a run 'n' gun character. I had high INT and a decent speech/medicine/science skill so he wasn't a complete dolt. Still, I found it near impossible.

- ammunition was extremely scarce, I found myself using the spear most of the time, and my charcter was completely untrained in melee and energy weapons (making the holorifle near useless.)
- FORCED STEALTH. My god, the worst thing you can implement into any game. People who wanna play stealthers are gonna play stealthers, people who don't aren't. Forcing me to sneak past unkillable guards and such is annoying, frustrating and it breaks character.
- the radios and speakers. It wasn't fun, it wasn't challenging, it wasn't interesting and it made no sense. It was blatantly annoying.

For the record, New Vegas is one of my games of the decade and I love all of the other DLC. Dead Money had a lot of potential and it did a lot of things right, but the restraints it put on your character ruined it for me.

Took the words out of my mouth! People keep saying it is easy to get past the speakers - No S*!*t sherlock! It is friggin BORING. I don't want to spend twenty minutes of my life trying to figure how to move down a hallway or get around some Mega Death Hologram - that is guarding a casino? I do not have that much free time - and I felt like I wasted my time.

And WTF, why would super tech holograms be guarding a casino? I would think it should be in a top secret miltary base, not a little casino. Oh I read the computer terminals - but the frigging miltary would have come in and taken them! Again, why are there radios in a vault? They are there for one purpose - to annoy the player - but they have no good reason to exist in the game world.

Amen. Remove the forced stealth, speakers and give me some damn weapons, you got yourself a brilliant DLC.

I don't care if that's not a "true RPG" in some peoples eyes, I want something that enjoy, not something that I can brag to people on the internet (who don't care in the slightest) about beating.

On a final note I can imagine this DLC being pretty damn fun for a high level unarmed/melee character. You could enjoy the story and dialogue without having to worry about taking on near unkillable enemies with what may aswell be a toothpick.

Even with 100 unarmed and a truckload of perks to toughen a character an make said skill more useful, Dead Money is just a drag. From the moment you get knocked cold with a bust of gas to the face (fully sealed mint condition T51b lolwut) there's railroad track down. Oddly, many people find that a good thing.

Obviously Fallout isn't for you.

and what forced stealth? I never found myself being stealthy in my first playthrough of Dead Money.

you just because you do something doesn't mean its the games fault.

I'm getting very very tired of this phrase being thrown around by elitists.

The game it what you make of it.

For me, Dead Money was easily the least enjoyable because it's not set up how I like to play. It's survival horror with minimal resources where almost everything can kill you. So I've only played through it twice. I like loot, action, new places to discover, and DM gave very little of that.

But 'least enjoyable' does not necessarily equal 'worst'. The story of DM was easily my favorite of all the DLCs. That's what makes DM so frustrating - I really wanted to like it more, but the gameplay just dragged it down. Not my preferred style, but some people really like that. Takes all kinds, so good for them - I'm glad they enjoyed it.

Jerriecan

How dare you Sir. Dead money is FLAWLESS

Another vote for the "Pro" Dead Money Camp.

I remember there was one point in the game where, low on Ammo and Stimpaks,the only option was to run for my life to get to the next point on the map.

It was pure "back to the wall" stuff. The fact that, unlike the main game, no longer could I decapitate an enemy's head with a single shot from Elijah's Advanced LAER made the challenge all the more interesting.

I loved Dead Money. Great writing. Interesting premise.

But then again, I'm one of those who disliked the childish jabbering of the robots in Old World Blues.

All strictly personal then.

Just my ten bottle caps.

The worst DLC is GRA. period.

Dead money is good when the player is good. Otherwise, of course....
A great mood, a creepy place and some tough ennemies. Is it the worst because it is the most difficult ? The story is well written and it is challenging at any level.

^

No, it's the worst because it's so contrived from start to finish. I've detailed why in several posts now.

Mothership Zeta is still the worst DLC I have ever played.

There is literally nothing good about it, it was just a boring shoot-em-up which had nothing to do with Fallout at all, then Bethesda had the balls to suggest maybe it was the Aliens who started the great war.


:sadvaultboy: