And as long as we're asking more general questions: there's been a bit of discussion recently about "ledge teleport"....where an NPC is knocked off a ledge and then teleports back to the top and simply stands up and continues fighting. It occurred to me that this might be a similar case to the problem you had....the NPC is knocked back by a shield bash or mod added technique and perform a "knock back" animation as they fall. When the animation is finished the game considers their finished position as incorrect and snaps them back to where the animation began.

If this is the same effect you encountered, is there anything in what you learned that could help correct the issue?

(DISREGARD THAT IMA [censored] and posted before I checked with another of the 7 browsers I have installed.)

I've just recently come back to oblivion to your (new to me) DR5.... love it, love it, love it.... I can't imagine all the hard work you put into this, and I admire your dedication to something you give away free to us.... just wanted you to know you ARE appreciated....
:foodndrink:

Skycaptain I can't wait for the new animations. And the legs in first person sounds really cool.

Also, is it possible in the future to change the holding of a bow in first-person view while not having an arrow nocked to be held more vertically, as it is shown in third-person view?

Well not really, as what makes this system pretty reliable (especially after the discussed tweaks) is that I don?t even try to use any tricks to detect obstacles, but rather if the NPC is actively trying to get somewhere he cannot go, and/or straight out runs in place.


But outside combat, do the NPCs really try to go somewhere thay cannot get? Or if they walk against a table briefly, would it really be immersive if they would jump on the table rather than going around it?



I can see the need for getting companions to follow you where you go, and I gave this some thought while making the plugin. But I came to the conclusion that fully automatic system would never be good enough to make them reliably follow you in hard places, especially if they wouldn?t try to keep very close.



So maybe something like this could be implemented: when you know the NPC should try and run jump where you are, against his pathing AI, you could press a key which would make the NPC?s in your are, that have "player" as their package target, and in "playerFaction" to ignore or obstacles and run, and jump when they get stuck - as long as the key is pressed and the NPC is more than 200 units away from you.

This way you could guide the NPC to you, after which he/she would resume the normal follow AI. Would this be of any value?






It?s not entirely same, even though the underlying engine action probably is. The difference is that the engine probably applies the same check and resulting action to a different situation - when the NPC is in ragdoll state and bounces around the game world under the influence of the physics.

When I make the NPC to jump, I handle the vertical transition by explicitly updating the z-coordinate of the NPC, cause I KNOW how high I want the NPC to jump.

However, if an NPC falls down from a cliff, I don?t know where he "should" stay so I can?t make him stay there by explictly setting his position coordinates, since the position of the ragdoll is not the position "getpos" functions report, but the position the NPC teleports back to when he gets up.




Thank you for saying that, it?s the comments like that that keep me going. :foodndrink:

You almost got away with that "hidden jump mod", if it wasn't for my boredness that led me to read a thread page other than the most recent one. Oh and very excited about it all. :foodndrink:

Seconded. Sometimes we forget to say, but it really appreciated, even if sometimes we whine. Thankyou.

It might be of value if it was done right. A special command could be useful in those cases where a companion decides to take a huge detour to get where the PC got using a straight line + jumps. It is true that most companion mods have a "summon companion" spell that fills this need though. :shrug:

Probably everyone would agree, to some degree, that it would be ideal for npcs to be able to navigate the world, according to skills, in the same way the PC can. Unfortunately, it would seem that because of the original game design re pathing and non-jumping npcs, using a companion will always require some care-taking.

Thanks for giving this some thought!

Im gonna go ahead and third that. DR5 is by far the best combat mod ive ever stumbled across and i cant thank you enough for making OB combat have some strategy involved. I cant wait for DR6!!!!! Horse Combat really is what i cant wait to see. AH!

I just wanted to register to let you know how much I enjoy deadly reflex and appreciate all the time it took to put this great mod together. Best combat modification of any game I have seen and I'm a heavy mod user

Hope to see a release soon <3

K, it's been a couple days since I posted lol. Just wondering how everything is coming along. First, how's the guts coming along? Still having collision issues? And what about the jumping? Is it close to being ready? Alot of questions lol, I just like to feel in the loop. Really great mod Skycaptain, you are great, and absolutely CANNOT wait for DR6! I'll keep posting as long as you keep working :woot:

Ok, I?ll make adjustments to the jump esp now, I?ll upload it for testing probably in an hour or less; a headsup for those that would like to test it out and comment on the improvement.



About the animation tweaking help: I?ll contact you guys directly with instructions, but not today since I need some time to make clean instructions - like I said it?s easy and there?s not that much to say, but I don?t want to MAKE IT sound complicated with half-assed intructions. Also I need to check which anims still need work.




I?ll test the collision copying now as well, as soon as I have updated the jump script.

Here?s the new version:





EDIT: The parameter list above is missing one "advanced" parameter, not very important but just incase:

-forceJumpDelay (default 2), how many seconds the NPC needs to be considered idle for the AI package to run at player, with no obstacle avoiding ("setallreachable 1" command active), to kick in.

Very cool, thank you!

It doesn't fix NPCs continually jumping into obstacles though right?

It should, basicly now when they stand in place for 2s then an AI package to "find player" kicks in together with "setallreachable". The NPC techincally drops out of combat, but since he practically already is it doesn?t make a difference, his standing in place eating arrows in most cases.


This makes them make a plan to reach player and at the same time they mostly ignore obstacles, so they should eventually run straight at you and then when running in place, jump. The package condition lasts for 8s and the package duration is 10, I don?t know which takes higher priority. Then there?s a 8s cool-down before this behavior can even take place again, and that would require him standing in place, in combat, for 2s, not doing anything, again.


Of course the NPCs may not simply be able to get where you are, especially with lower jump height, but it?s better they keep trying IMO than if they stand in place. I my testing the overall result was much more lively actions from the NPC and he always reached me, never giving up and letting me shoot him to dead from a safe position.



To clarify, the problem with the last version was that there was no control over who is calling the "setallreachable", so with two or more NPCs the setting was active almost constantly. Now it?s globally controlled, so it can be active in the worst case scenario only maximum of 8 out of 16 seconds. This should make a big difference together with other changes.

Hm. I found that an NPC would still run and jump into obstacles, even though I was behind them and they could easily reach me. I got closer to the NPC and it turned around to fight me.

Wait, so this means that NPCs will jump for 8 seconds against an obstacle before they give up and try a different route?

Hmm, I my testing they rather ran around and from time to time try the straight route - the whole point was to even make that happen from time to time - maybe it makes a difference how well the system handles the AI load?


I mean I just upgraded my CPU to AMD 965 and running it at 3.8Ghz, so it?s possible the AI is updating its decisions more often for me? Then again I don?t know what beast you are running.



The 8s just makes them run a find package (IF they were doing nothing in combat) to run at player, and during that time they don?t avoid abstacles. So they may try to run and jump agaist an obstacle during that time. For me it took a few seconds from them to start running at me, then it first looked like they would go around, then they started running at me and managed to jump a couple of time before the package ran out. So it didn?t seem like a long time.

If you can, take a pic for me with explanation, or even a movie clip? It could possibly help me to assosiate which course of action would help. That try and jump multiple times is better than just standing IMO, but running in the wrong direction - that sounds odd. :confused:

Yes, perhaps pictures and such would help.

I can't test it right now, but I do the NPCs jump testing at the Ayleid Ruin of http://www.uesp.net/wiki/File:OB-Fanacasecul.jpg Outside there are a couple bandits and they chase me over the Ayleid bridges and platforms in which there are broken up chunks and such. They run and jump over them to get to me. And sometimes they fall into a large broken chunk of the Ayleid platform and they continually run and jump into it.

EDIT: Although, I put the jump height for NPCs down to 60. They can't get over the obstacle and keep jumping and running into it.

I'm so testing that tonight. It seems it will be a great improvement to gameplay as well.

Thanks man!

No need, I just witnessed what you experienced - even with the "find" package disabled. It looks like a stange combination of the AI deciding to take a detour to reach your position, but at the same time not avoiding the obstacles. Kinda defats the purpose, when they try to go around, and THEN get stuck jumping obstacles.


I?m ditching the "setallreachable", and trying some tricks to make them momentarily charge straight at you to make them break out from their coma when they think they can?t reach you. It?s better that they only try to jump sometimes and sometimes behave stupid (standing in place vanilla style) than that they get even more stupid due to the jumping behavior, and that?s what the "setallreachable" seems to cause.


EDIT: Wolve, sorry for the delay, I?ll have to news for you tonight, last night I ran out of time.

Here?s a fix attempt to the bug reported by TissueBox:

I tested beta 3 quickly and they behave quite normally. On the first 2 images, it took them a bit of time to reach me. The shots are taken at the fort north of Anvil.

http://www.tesnexus.com/imageshare/images/196854-1253644157.jpg
http://www.tesnexus.com/imageshare/images/196854-1253644185.jpg

On the last one, she was quite quick. It was taken in Fanacasecul.

http://www.tesnexus.com/imageshare/images/196854-1253644212.jpg

I'll grab beta 4 and play with it It adds a lot I think. I faced a Shivering Zombie Master from MMM and the bastard jumped over one of my sword swing... I think the animation was a combination of the duck animation from DR5 and the jump ability from this mod It looked neat, even if it's a "feature"

Sounds like the jumping is coming along great Skycaptain, nice work! I'd never be able to do this stuff, I can't script for crap lol. I'm gonna try to learn soon. Keep up the work, I can't wait to see the results! :rock:

I need this! Thanks!

Unfortunately, I find that NPCs will still run and jump into obstacles they cannot get over.