I'm curious about the Daedra Princes and their "politics". I mean from in-game we have only minimal info on their interactions. For example it is known they do have a sort of competition and "sport" between each other. From SI ending I think it's clear however that there's also more than just that.

The questions are:
1. How "organized" do you think the princes are? (see eg: Jyg's story, how "the others" were afraid of his power etc.)
2. How do they communicate in the first place? Do they send avatars to others' realms? (is that even possible? Do they just use a "quasi telepathy"? etc.)
3. Can they fight each other? (if we take SI ending seriously, they can affect each other so why not outright fight?)
4. How does all of the above translate into the whole "purpose/sphere" thing? (how can Destruction communicate with Madness? )

I'm just curious on your take on this, I don't really expect any source-backed answer since I think it's too far out, but any kind of backing would be of course welcome.

I think http://www.imperial-library.info/sheogoraths.shtml said it best:
"Oh, Oblivion is full of games to make you scream and chortle,
Like, Guess the Disaster’s Path, or Pin The Madness on the Mortal.
And there’s always poetry involved, for it is the Princes’ duty
To take the ugly in your world and give it our own beauty
The marble jaws of Oblivion forever opening and shutting
Like poetry, you let Mundus run, and then do a lot of cutting.
A plague here, pestilence there, it’s so difficult choosing,
But when we’re not doing that, we trying to be amusing."

Unbrothers and notsisters they are, a quite... special family. They play their games - often involving a certain playground called Mundus - like Sheogorath with Azura when they bet against each other whether an Azura worshipper could remain in meditation on Azura for 100 years or not (or somesuch). Sheogorath also likes to dance. As to the purpose and sphere thing, sure, they are embodiments of spheres, but they are also personified. So there's no hindrance of Mehrunes Dagon having a little hunting party with Hircine or Sheogorath peeking into Azura's dressing room while she changes from scantily dressed to scantily dressed..

Yes I knew that but 2 questions remain:
1. do they even organize bigger things? (is there perhaps a crisis-council? again, see Jyg's story)
2. how EXACTLY do they interact? I mean say Molag Bal wanted to ask Dagon for a bit of support in that next mutation thing, would he send a messager, go "himself" (avatar) into Dagon's realm, or just telepathy like boring stuff?

Thanks, that explains a lot

Muthsera,

Although some may disagree, it is still my contention that the Good Daedra and Bad Daedra from the Dunmeri religion (See http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/house_of_troubles.shtml) still war against one another, such as http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=792993&hl=Boethiah+Hunger+Sheogorath+daedra#.

Yours in the Scrolls,

___TWM

Mehrunes Dagon: Avast ye lily livered spearladen fistjackeled [censored]monger, I prune ye best a huntress ten-buckles eh?

Hircine: Commonplaced a filce barge-raqueled pompliquor stiltsewing candycrackler. Guess yew maltgrog a... oh yeah sure.

Sheogorath*nudges Hircine with elbow*: He's breaking the contract under freshmaplewallaby ittybittytexty-twos.

Hircine: I daresay a flipping burse crandle... *squints at rulebook*. Say why are we speaking in code again?

Sotha Sil held council with Daedra, so I'm assuming that they interacted with each other politically, by association at least.

And Malacath is not fun at parties.

I'd like to remind you to be careful with 2920. Carlovac Townway is a writer of historical fiction, so everything should be taken with a grain of salt. It's a great story, but that doesn't say everything happened like it says it did. The Tribunal is described far more "normal" than would be expected of the religious writings of the Dunmer and other stories.
Nontheless, though, I see no reason why Daedra shouldn't "meet" in a neutral spot in their personified images. After all, it's much more comfortable to speak to a person than to a concept.

I'd be pretty uncomfortable in a room with Vaermina and Molag Bal.

I'd worry about you if you weren't.
I was actually referring to the Princes meeting with each other, but since you brought it up, I think that would be the case when they face mortals, too. After all, the Princes have no interest in making a mortal's head burst prematurely.

Well Daedra would rather meet in being than send surrogates or encoded messages.

Didn't Sheogorath meet the PC in the Mantellan Crux?

Hircine fought the PC in Morrowind?

Clavicus Vile bargaining with Cyrus?

You're right. I'd rather see a giant four armed demon than the restless alien terror that is god.

Imagine a massive woodland with a bunch of animals in it. Each animal has their own motives, for reasons unknown. Also in the woodland are a bunch of wonderfully pliable insects. The animals find out they like toying with the insects. So each animal gathers a group of the little insects to toy with. The keep away from the other animals usually, unless feeling exceedingly bored. And there would be no sense in using insects to fight the other animals, because the other animals could simply trod on the insects. So under this agreement, the animals go about their business having all kinds of fun with the little insects.

:D

While I do like your anology, I think it does a disservice to the Princes in thinking that they'd use mortals for just open fighting with their nonsiblings. Most likely, they use them as that nice little proverbial monkey-wrench to toss into the cogs of whatever little schemes they've got going for them.


Being a middle child, I can certainly understand the sort of schadenfreude-derived joy one would get from seeing their sibling storming off in a huff. My best example, while it doesn't really involve mortals, would probably be the tale about Hircine and Sheogorath's competition in The Sixteen Accords of Madness.

Short answer, because of CHIM. My general idea is that the princes know CHIM when they see it. I doubt they bother with other mortals.



This is a nice anology, but they shouldn't underestimate the mortals, if nothing then because as noted before, they are the destined bearers of CHIM. See what Vivec did to Azura. I doubt anyone else ever did anything worse to a Prince

And to get myself back on topic, thanks for all the answers, I also think that, between each other the princes talk via avatars mostly.
I think it's also clear that while they do have the occasional spark of cooperative behavior disorder, it seems they're largely incapable of organizing themselves in bigger numbers (say 5+).

In all honesty I asked all this because of a mod I'd love to make one day regarding the continuation of SI But it's very questionable if I find enough time to try my hand at modding again.

Say, what do you think the other princes would consider the late MadGod? I know they know he's not a Daedra, that's clear, but otherwise?

Well, some insects are poisonous. Some are spiny. And some yet emit a foul odor when killed. The animals generally find this out the hard way.

It's Daedra. Daedraaaaaa.

Sorry bout that, my bad. There it's fixed.. or was it always fixed? I must've performed a Dragon Break But the title is irreversible..

Didn't Sheogorath said that that Orc Deadra (from the Ashpit Realm, I forgot his name, wasn't he malacath?) wasn't popular on parties, ofcource it was a joke, but they meet soemthings I guess....

Asspit?

You mean old Malacath and his Ashpits? The Asspit, now there's a realm I don't wanna visit.

Seriously, and I thought the brimstone in the Deadlands was bad!



EDIT:god, my typing has degenerated severely


EDIT2: edit to add the "EDIT"

No, but sanguine must be.

I can't see a council with Molag Bal, Dagon and Malacath ever doing anything constructive.

Destructive can be Constructive in a way.