So I decided to indulge my nostalgia and play F3 : Fallout Series Discussion

» Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:55 am

I have to agree and disagree on this. 200 years may SEEM like a lot of time but the problem is that back during the 1700s to 1900s, there were no real threats other than the regular threat by other countries. But a military force was plausible because civilization had been built up to that time. But the nukes wiped the Earth clean of all civilization other than Vegas and the other cities that survived.

And that brings me to my next point. The Capital Wasteland doesn't have a surviving city to base its defenses on. D.C is completely overrun by Super Mutants while Vegas was completely under Mr. House's control. Remember, these wastelanders don't know how to start settlements and create farms, government systems, etc. Besides, remember that caring for only yourself and your family is the key to survival in the nuclear wasteland so why help others?

Only really good politicians and people with OVER 9000! speech skill(had to put that in) could create a system of government. Either that or prove their worth like Caesar.

How do you think NCR got started? They rebuilt from the ground up "Shady Sands." They rebuild they farmed and they thrived and look where they are now! NCR was not the only people to rebuild, farm and thrive and there was no surviving city in the core region of FO1 and FO2. All the peoples in fallout but the tribals rebuilt towns and cities. Hell even the tribals built better shelters then shacks and they farmed animals and plants. FO3 was bad. It just had its people sitting around for 200 years in a radioactive mud hole, no farming, no rebuilding (with new materials) and no thriving and yet some how there were people that could perform complicated facial surgery and work on Project P :wacko: If they could learn to do that they could learn how to build a city, farm or be smart enough to go where there are no super mutants.

» Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:43 am

Due to the poor living conditions I would expect the average life expectancy to be under 30 years. That means in 200 years you would see 6-7 generations go by. Not sure how that would translate into things

» Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:43 am

Well the Capital Wasteland was nuked harder than most places (according to Raul anyway) and the strong super mutant and raider threats kept them from expanding or even advancing at all. Let alone try to figure out prewar tech.
On the West Coast the mutants didn't remain a serious threat all that long thanks to the Vault Dweller. After his intervention the NCR was able to grow and destroy most raider groups and begin focusing on advancing and using prewar technology

Also farming in the Capital Wasteland isn't as useful do to lack of clean water. Which is probably the biggest reason they can't advance as easily as those on the West Coast.

» Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:14 am

All the peoples in fallout but the tribals rebuilt towns and cities. Hell even the tribals built better shelters then shacks and they farmed animals and plants. FO3 was bad. It just had its people sitting around for 200 years in a radioactive mud hole, no farming, no rebuilding (with new materials) and no thriving and yet some how there were people that could perform complicated facial surgery and work on Project P :wacko: If they could learn to do that they could learn how to build a city, farm or be smart enough to go where there are no super mutants.

I do have to agree with this though, the common wastelanders in the Capital Wasteland really were kind of patheticly stupid with a few exceptions.

» Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:20 am

"Its a game" is no reason for logic to go out the window. I for one like knowing the reason why people are where they are and how they got there. Settlements in FO3 are just there, no real back story to them and no way to show how they are feeding themselves.

I found Logic.I really dunno i was able to figure out or read on different fallout sources but i found logic. I dont say F3 is a better game and i am protecting it but I found the logic. For nearly everything.

» Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:05 am

I actually found a problem(and a flaw probably) that we barely know what happened in Capital Wasteland before 2220-2230. Becaue the situation in the wasteland certanly was completely different. Considering Pinkerton we can persume that Institute counter part existed. Naval Research Center. Most probably their old headquarters were destroyed by Super Mutants and Pinkerton lead few newbies(or rookies) to find a new lab space. But nevertheless a scientific organization existed which been the place where people learned some basic and more skills.
There should have been other settlements in DC or out. Farming would be impossible in CW atmosphere. Raiders, Slavers or Mutants would have killed you and their numbers were much thicker in the past. As 200 past their is no one whoknows how to start the farms, everyone is focused on survival. Unlike F1/F2/FNV F3 showed great need for a survivor. The Brotherhood werent the knights in shinning armor on its own. We were made to believe it through game world interaction. I was always pissed how they treated me and only Lyons looked like he was doing something.

» Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:59 am

Though, of course, I did think that (IMHO) Fallout 3 often ended up looking a bit more visually impressive, for this. Hopefully this can lead to a nice fusion with Fallout 4...

Though to be honest DC is a more iconic city with constant set pieces to draw from.
New Vegas is based of a city that's constantly changing. Just one on one transposing present day casinos wouldn't make sense.

Though Fallout 3 had a lot more impressive places I feel it had more to work with in regards to places that could support them.

On the whole, F3 gave a pretty rosy picture - plenty of guns, plenty of ammo, plenty of working pre-war technology. Those things simply don't happen without a massive amount of organisation behind them.

FNV paints far too rosy a picture still....there's way too much pre-war tech out there. Seriously, two hundred year old heavy machinery working quarries? But they can't get a train going? And no-one has thought of getting a car in working order, but they think "Great, I'll just machine up some high-precision firearms on the old lathe here"...

1) Trains are working and probably some cars are working (no cars is as much an engine limitation as it is a design choice)
2) The pictures not that rosy. There's some odd things here and there but overal people seem to be living of the land (farming, hunting/gathering and supporting professions). The only place not (in NV) is a place (re)built by a pre-war businessman built around entertainment and the prospect of getting rich.

Well the Capital Wasteland was nuked harder than most places (according to Raul anyway) and the strong super mutant and raider threats kept them from expanding or even advancing at all. Let alone try to figure out prewar tech.

Also farming in the Capital Wasteland isn't as useful do to lack of clean water. Which is probably the biggest reason they can't advance as easily as those on the West Coast.

Plants are generally more hardy than humans. This disregards the silly CW radiation.
And they do figure out prewar tech, like all the time. Robots, water purification, computers, etc... Yet not one person farming.
Megaton, a place built not too long after the war apparently, has nothing going on except water purification. How did this place survive that long?

No in the end the CW makes little sense. I am in agreement with the OP, its a glaring difference how much time has gone into the logic behind each place in NV vs. the CW.