I believe some readers of the following post are acquainted with thief series made by looking glass and ion storm.

Currently I’m playing Thief III Deadly Shadows, and I can see that visually Thief and Oblivion have a lot of common things like design, level of detalization and etc. But mechanics are absolutely different. When, in oblivion, you enter some building or castle you just quickly do your business and get away, there is no reason for exploration; nothing valuable is there, no secrets. In thief it’s absolutely opposite, you study every corner, you sit in every shadow, because there are a lot of things to do, to examine and etc. What I’m talking about is that in oblivion it’s just decoration when in thief it’s a real world!

In skyrim we will have, at last, normal real shadows, and this could be a real possibility to improve stealth system of game. From some weird, archaic “cube” calculation (where everything is based on your ephemeral stealth skill, not level of noise or how well you hid yourself in shadows), to a level where environment plays its main role. Where possibility of getting caught depends on how you are lit and how noisy you are.

How was it in oblivion? You wait until dark, lockpick someone’s house, and then you start to rob it, praying that your skill would be enough to stay hidden. How it should be? You stay in deep shadow and no one will see you, you stay near the light and chance to be caught rise drammaticly. When you are near people, sleeping people, amount of noise will play its role, if you are in leather boots, it would be quiet, if in metal one than its fail and etc.

A guy is sitting on chair in front of fireplace, reading a book, you are behind him, sneaking on his shelves. Then he stands up and go to bed, you will need to react fast to get into shadow so he won’t see you.

That’s my dream. Rise stealth system to LGS Thief level…

Thx for you time and sorry for my weird english.

I want a good stealth system but I don't want them to remove the sneak skill. Unlike the Thief series, this is an RPG and stats matter. I think that detection should depend on a well balanced combination of your sneak stat and your stealthiness (involving shadows and noise).

This would be wonderful, but tes lets you do so many things that individual stuff like this suffers. Cant have it all...

obviously they wouldn't remove the sneak skill, but they could make it play more of a role in how much noise you make than some weird DICE ROLL DETECTION CHECK.

("watch him willingly draw the ire of those who deem themselves Protectors of the Codex! so brave! so daring!")

considering how many people from Looking Glass and Ion Storm now work at Bethesda (Mark Lampert, Emil Pagliarulo, i'm sure probably some others) i'm positive there's dudes there who want Thief-level stealth and have gone about drawing up concepts about how that would work. looking at how Oblivion and Fallout 3 handled stealth and looking at how Skyrim finally has shadows, i'm expecting good things.

ed actually one of the stealth perks makes you move quieter so maybe we're closer to this then we think!

IMO, If they have a part Thief part Metal Gear Solid inspired stealth system (the two best stealth games in the industry) then that would be ideal. There are pieces from both games that, if combined, would make an awesome stealth experience.

Since Bethesda has expressed that they do get inspired by other games, then i wouldn't be surprised if they look to Thief and MGS for guidance.

Individual stuff? We have half the skills we had when The Elder Scrolls I came out, not only does each skill play less of a roll in the game, they've gotten rid of them instead of improving on them and implementing them.

oh jesus not this again.

also no we have more skills than we did when Arena came out because Arena HAD NO SKILLS. go play the previous games and see how skills worked (or didn't work) before complaining that they're gone.

also way to completely ignore the addition of perks which adds a level of customization to character skill progression that's even deeper than Daggerfall's since all the perks actually DO THINGS.

has anybody ever stopped to think that things that worked well twenty years ago might not work so well anymore?

ed nevermind i just saw your post in the other thread revealing you are in fact completely ignorant as to what this game is and contains so don't mind me!

Well im just saying that the more bethesda tries to do the less polished certain aspects of the game will be. Its hard to find the right balance between lots of freedom of play and good streamlined mechanics.

I haven't played Thief since the first one so I can't really say how it works in the new one, but I kind of agree with what you say. Elder Scrolls has, of course, a lot more than stealth gameplay, so to expand enormously in shady hallways everywhere just for stealth players is probably unrealistic. But I do agree, that especially castles could use some more secrets and extra interesting loot, instead just a closet with some expensive clothes in them... More dungeons in the cellars, well protected areas where maybe the guards aren't guards but a bit more personally hired by the count to protect his dungeon, and then will actually kill you on sight instead of just having to pay a fine for trespassing...

Things like that :toughninja:

Well, i agree with your thoughts. Many things but none of them developed deeply. But still, i believe, they are working on it.

Well, maybe my word sound too strait but i'm not speaking of making skyrim a stealth game, just more environmental stuff to support stealth, that's it

I think they retooled the shadow system so perhaps this time hallways will not be entirely lit or dark so we can duck from shadow to shadow. Oblivion torches magically illuminated entire rooms and halls!

I'm pretty sure one of the designers of oblivions stealth system came from the studio that did work on Thief...

http://www.elderscrolls.com/community/now-you-see-me-now-you-dont/

Yup, right again.

i would love to see an awesome stealth system in place! splinter cell is an awesome franchise and that is what got me into playing stealthy in other games
stealth is awesome and it wasn't very useful in oblivion or morrowind >.<

Well you can see that he was working on oblivion as well, but stealth system of oblivion is primitive and more skill oriented.

Your playing thief 3? OMG best stealth game ever. Honestly I totally love that game its amazing. Edios kicks ass.
Anyway, yes I would like to see a better stealth system. Like a step by step awareness system (like thief 3)
Basically : "Did you just hear something?" - Slightly aware. "I heard something" - Aware, but not searching for you. "I definitely saw something" - They look around for you.
"I know your there, come out of the shadows!" - They know you are there and they don't stop searching until you are dead/until you escape. The next step, combat.

dude you have no idea how much I wish Skyrim could make stealth JUST LIKE THIEF 3

exactly like it, the same, its twin, because stealth in MW and OB was LAME.

LOL

them gots ridz of acrobat AMG we can't jumpz anymore DUHHHHH :bonk:

only thing they did is give ES a well overdue liposuction

I don't know about MW, but stealth in OB is pretty overpowering once you level it even just a little bit.

This link pretty much confirms, why I don't think we'll see Thief or Splinter Cell level deep stealth system. Mostly because those games are designed around stealth, you can't just run out and murder everybody in clean sight, also there wasn't an entire explorable world in the game.

Still it needs some tweaks, mainly on the AI part, and it would help if you couldn't hide in a plain, featureless field with bright light.

While some improvement to the stealth system wouldn't be a bad thing, it's probably impractical to try to make a system equal to those found in stealth-centered games.



(Think about it - people keep asking for similar stuff, but each for their own favorite focus... someone wants stealth like in Thief; someone else wants free-running & climbing like in Assassin' Creed or Mirror's Edge; etc, etc, etc. Things that are so well developed because they're the focus of an entire game. Trying to stick that level of any of those things, into an open world game with many different play styles would be difficult, even if just from a labor & budget standpoint. Also has the potential to weaken the overall focus or coherence of the game, if they get distracted trying to get one part "just right".)

Yes, I totally agree with you guys. I'm asking for stealth, another will ask for real sword fight, third will ask about real street magic... But still, all these aspects shouldn't be there just as formality, like "look, we have stealth, fighting and etc, our game is the most packed one". That's why i think shadows should be more then another graphical enhancement in game.

I know that light level affected stealth in Fallout 3, and I thought it did in Oblivion....... so, I'd expect that to be included in Skyrim.

in OB light only affected sneaking until you reached a certain level of sneak. after that you could sneak right up to a bandit in broad daylight out in the middle of an open road and he wouldn't notice you until you were just about upon him.

Aaaand that's what i'm talking about. Dramatical fail