When Delphine came to me with her ultimatum "Kill Paarthurnax or you are not welcome among the Blades" I was immediately upset. When attempting to explain the matter further she more or less ignores your dialogue & again insists Paarthurnax must die.

Here is what I don't understand. What does she or the Blades stand to gain by turning away the Dragonborn? Yes, it is Blades oath/tradition to vanquish all dragons "BUT" it also is their duty to help/guide the Dragonborn. Apparently it is not enough that I have killed hundreds of Dragons. She wants "THAT" dragon dead. In addition to said demand, she also has the audacity to come to the Greybeard sanctuary, insist to be present during the peace council & openly disrespects the Greybeards.

From what I understand Delphine & Esbern are the last known living Blades (There may be others in hiding were unaware of). The other Blades have been hunted down & eliminated by the Thalmor. So in my particular play through I did not recruit any members prior to this incident. Meaning it is just those 2. Esbern is on deaths door already as he appears to be 60+ years old already. Leaving just Delphine as the last surviving Blade.

Your telling me, she is going to turn away the Dragonborn over some oath that hasn't been effective since the last time the Dragons were present (Hundreds/Thousands of years)? She is going to turn away the Dragonborn when the Thalmor have a Dossier on both of them & after attending the peace council, the Thalmor know 100% for certain she is alive?

Its my belief that Bethesda portrayed Delphine in this manner as they knew most people would be attached to the Blades from the prior TES series, but if this is the manner in which they conduct themselves, well...[censored] em. I don't expect to see The Blades in the next TES.

What are your thoughts on this?

Blades are only like a really huge part in Oblivion. In Daggerfall and Morrowind for the most part you only interact with one blade agent and take a few orders so there really isn't all that much attachment to them. It's pretty much the same in Skyrim, you get a few quests from them so the plot can move on. I actually don't have a very strong hate or love toward them at all, they are more annoying than their predecessors combined, but still rather minor in the game IMO.

I just told the blades where to go and merrily went on my way summoning dragons to do my bidding and terrorizing the countryside. I mean really, what are they going to do to me? I am the dragonborn. Bwahahahaha!

Well, at least I did that on my last playthrough, I"m trying really really hard not to terrorize the countryside this time around. It's not easy I"m telling you.

Bad storytelling, basically, it's the thieve's guild all over again.

Just remember to grab the Blades Armor before reaching that point in the Game. Your character is a Dragonborn, the type of being that the Original Akavirii Dragongaurd forced the taesci of Akavir to surrender to during one of the millenial invasions of Tamriell that Akavir launches.

Honestly, I think it's good storytelling. The Blades have fallen. You, as Dragonborn, can either feed into their descent and go down with them (by killing Parth) or you can let them die on their own by siding with Parth.
It also depends on what you think of the nature of Dragons. Parth himself said that everyday, he fights his nature. Maybe he'll go back on that-- and he'd be a dangerous, and powerful enemy. Maybe he won't.

There is no GOOD or BAD route. If you think there is, you're wrong. There's simply what you believe to be the best option. Killing Parth in cold blood is bad, but is it a necessary evil? Maybe, maybe not.
I personally choose NOT to feed into the Blades descent and I side with Parth. Together maybe we can create a truce between the Dragons, Men, and Mer.. which would be a great alliance (and I feel like the Dragons wouldn't be fond of the Thalmor, if you catch my drift).


This is all just my opinions and thoughts, however.

Interesting fact: Paarthurnax never denies the charges leveled against him. He did what Delphine and Esbern said he did. The whole choice boils down to this: Do the centuries Parth has spent helping the Greybeards (and by extension, humanity) make up for the atrocities he committed before he found the Way of the Voice? Delphine and Esbern don't believe so, and that's where their stance comes from.

Also worth noting: there has never been a dragon like Paarth. No other dragon has turned against his own nature and kin like he has. I imagine that at least part of their insistence is because they don't quite know what to do with him, so they're falling back on the old standby of 'If it's a dragon, kill it'.

All well said. I side with Paarthy, let the Blades fade into history.

It's as though Beth decided to throw in some faction conflict at the last moment, and they half-assed it.

No that was the oath of the Dragonguard. The blades allowed dragons in the service of Tiber and Reman.

Delphine and Esbern decided they don't want to be blades anymore, just Dragonguard.

Is it the Blades' duty to help and guide all Dragonborns, or only Dragonborn emperors of the Septim line? I seriously don't know the lore on this one.

Lore aside, though, the Blades aren't even a shadow of their former selves, and their survival is not guaranteed, even if you help them. To me, as to others who've posted above, the decision has nothing to do with what the Blades were or are. It comes down to what my character thinks of Paarthurnax: is his past and continuing aid to humans is enough to make up for his earlier atrocities? Will he continue to be able to control the side of his nature that's inclined to view humans solely as prey? My more cynical/amoral characters wonder what's best for them personally.

Neither of my two characters who finished the MQ killed Paarthurnax. My more heroic and generally "good" character spared him because she did view his aid as deserving of mercy for his past actions. My amoral, power-hungry wizard spared him because she was loathe to eliminate a source of power and knowledge of benefit to herself.

Well... everyone playing on PC uses Arthmoor's tiny mod for this, do they not?

The one that lets you inform Delphine and Esbern that Paarthy shall live.

When the entire Blades Sanctuary rumbles from the Dragonborn's power as he states "do not question my judgement on this or you will arouse my wrath" it is very satisfying...

I'm on PC, and (shockingly, I know)I don't use Arthmoor's mod for this.

I settle it differently.

First, I complete the Civil War Questline (doesn't matter which side), sacking either Solitude or Windhelm (names given Alphabetically).

When during the Main Quest, I reach Sky Haven, I make certain to explore the temple, thus "finding" Dragonrend (Nice Katana for slaying Dragons), Blades Katana and armor.

WHen the quest is completed (Alduin's Wall), I depart, resealing the second Ward (the one that has all those pressure plates to open the drawbridge) on my way out, thus sealing them in. Forever.

I'm such a meanie.

I can't play anymore without this mod.

The first time I saw Delphine make that ultimatum on my first playthrough I was legitimately shocked. It never occurred to me to even consider betraying Paarth. He provides the most crucial aid in the final stages of the MQ, his dialogue has some of the most entertaining and interesting discussions in the game, and he's just so darn likeable. All of my characters turn their backs on the Blades at that point and leave them to rot for their audacity and blindness. If I'm wearing any Blade's gear at that point, I'll dump it on the floor at Delphine's feet to drive home my point.

The only people who knew what happened didn't kill Paarth despite their capability to do so. Delphine is trying to condemn someone while his possible victims literally chose not to, rendering Delphine's stance ridiculous

Dragonguard didn't even exist hundreds of years after the Dragon War ended, and the original Dragonguards swore an oath to be Reman's slave because they were almost wiped out by Reman's forces. Dragonguard itself has no longer existed for centuries because they became Blades

Basically, Delphine pulled an oath out of her ass and used your relative lack of knowledge to manipulate you. There is no oath. There never was because the old Blades and the original Dragonguard both swore entirely different oaths, the only similar part of them would be that they're working FOR their masters, NOT WITH.

Interestingly, Delphine is trying to be a Grandmaster of Dragon Killers despite the fact that she had only ever fought one once and had a Dragonborn on her side in that one occasion. As Whiterun Guards demonstrated, you don't need an obscure fortress which only supply line is blocked both by a rebel force AND Hyrule deadly puzzles to be able to kill a dragon.

Neither do I. I, personally, don't get all outraged by Delphine's ultimatum: considering her background, it's not surprising. Both the characters I mentioned listened to her and then basically said, "Fine. Bye!"

It did help that I played the mage first, and thus didn't need the armor or the sword. When I did play the warrior, she made sure to take all that stuff beforehand!

I have played both sides and once did not kill Parth and once did, I have to say killing him gave me much more satisfaction, after all I kill dragons every day without a second thought (as no doubt most of you do as well)and one that feigns innocence is no different to all the rest, slightly more intelligent-maybe or perhaps devious/cowardly in the face of destruction would be better words but to me that just makes him more dangerous than all the others, so more deserving of death if anything.

Delphine is a stupid narrow minded [censored].

Paarthurnax was the one who taught the ancient nords to shout. With that knowledge the ancient nords created Dragonrend and cast Alduin forward in time. It was Paarthurnax that guided you, the dragonborn to defeating Alduin.

And she wants him dead?

Seems thats since the last Blades are her and Esbern and both are likely beyond their years of having children. I say the Blades are dead. Should she find some way to get to Paarthurnax herself, she'll find me waiting with my sword ready. I wonder if I can find her head again once I toss it off the top of Throat of the World.

Just like people. I kill bandits all the time.

I make sure to kill everyone else around me too, because they all are self-serving and would betray me in an instant.

I've never actually killed him but I get more satisfaction hearing Delphine getting all worked up wanting me to kill him but knowing I never would. I play on Xbox 360, would have been nice if there was a way to tell her I never would kill Paarthunax and want nothing more to do with The Blades. See how she would react.

I think this choice is perhaps the only subtle and interesting moment in the whole main quest. But I also think the idea could have been executed a little better so that it doesn't confuse or outrage so many gamers.

The problem with the Blades ultimatum is, plain and simply put, piss poor writing. I really see no other way of putting it. Arthmoor's mod manages to put this [censored] in her place...and that's in service of the Dragonborn, not in command of him/her.

Agreed. Plus the members were nicer people & relevant in Oblivion

I always side with Parth, my yoga dragon. What he says there are some very very wise words that also can be translated to the real world. And oh, I like to fus-ro-dah Delphine from their backyard cliff off the mountains. I also consider Graybeards as one of the wisest men in Skyrim, so I respect their words of wisdom and always hear what they have to say.
I think this decision thing is a very nice and make-or-brake touch in the game, where you absolutely can't (without a mod) change Blade's view. Happens in real life far too often. I see that as a typical misconception of some people, when you actually _know_ what's right and what's wrong, yet you cannot prove that to others. Therefore you cannot be responsible for their refusal to see the world beyond their very noses or cure their blindness. Just like they cannot change your view.