[Matthew Aaron Evans]

I was just about to suggest using a backup or simply reinstalling would be much, much faster than OBMM. Anyway...

I can't find the Realistic Fatigue RELz thread, so I thought I'd ask here rather than starting a new thread: how do I configure the @#?%& thing?!

I've read the readme, I've tried to tailor the ini to my needs, but either I'm an idiot or I'm doing it wrong (or more likely; both) because nothing seems to make any difference.

If you can help, please, please do. I'd be terribly grateful. Here's how I'd like it to work:

Fatigue regeneration when standing, regardless of encumbrance.
No fatigue drain when walking, regardless of encumbrance.
Realistic Fatigue Standard fatigue drain for running, climbing and fighting.
Realistic Fatigue Standard chance to flop about when fatigued.
Super speedy fatigue regeneration when sitting (to work with the author's sittable rocks mod).

Anyone?

EDIT: Nevermind, I figured out what the problem was.

[Melanie]

http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=992037

This a very interesting WIP. It will supersede the original Bank Mod by adding different denominations of coinage, and hopefully doing some more complex things, in the future.

[Russell Davies]

Hi people.

As my gameplay has drifted further and further into the 'immersion' school, I have realised just how powerful mandrake root is. Carry a few and you need never worry about catching a disease again. You don't even have to brew it up into a potion, just eat the thing.

I want tn nerf the mandrake root's primary effect. Does anyone know a mod that does this?

If not, is it an easy thing to do in the console or CS. I've never used the CS so I would need an idiot's guide.

The four ingredients with cure poison as their first effect are mandrake root, Clanfear claws, Root Pulp and Shepherd's pie. I have no problem with root pulp as it is not easy to find. Similarly Shepherd's Pie is only readily avaiable when you reach a very high level, Mandrake Root I've talked about, I think that perhaps Clanfear Claws should also be nerfed, because in the min teen levels you gave more clanfear claws than you know what to do with if exploring Oblivion planes.

A simple solution would be to rotate the first and second effects of both Mandrake Root and Clanfear claws, givng resist poison and resist diseas as their first effects respectively, while retaining cure diseas as the secondary effect. This would still make it relatively easy to make cure disease potions (at apprentice level), but would eliminate the 'cheaty' use of wortcraft to eliminate the whole 'disease' threat in the game.

Advice and recommendations appreciated.

[Oceavision]

It's a piece of cake to do in the CS.

open it up, select oblivion.esm as the data file, find the Items ->ingredients in the tree on the left of the screen.

find the mandrake root in the main panel of the object window.

Double click it and you'll see a window showing the effects. Right click 'cure disease' and select delete, then just add it back in by right clicking an empty slot, choosing'add' and selecting 'cure disease' (it'll now be the last item). Lather rinse repeat if you want to change the order, or do this for any other ingredients.

Then save as "mynerfedmandrakemod.esp" or whatever, enable it, put it fairly late in your load order in case something else has changed it and you're done

[DAVId MArtInez]

It's a piece of cake to do in the CS.

open it up, select oblivion.esm as the data file, find the Items ->ingredients in the tree on the left of the screen.

find the mandrake root in the main panel of the object window.

Double click it and you'll see a window showing the effects. Right click 'cure disease' and select delete, then just add it back in by right clicking an empty slot, choosing'add' and selecting 'cure disease' (it'll now be the last item). Lather rinse repeat if you want to change the order, or do this for any other ingredients.

Then save as "mynerfedmandrakemod.esp" or whatever, enable it, put it fairly late in your load order in case something else has changed it and you're done

heX you're a star. Time to open the CS for the first time. Because of you I am looking forward to living with a variety of hideous diseases.

[Alan Whiston]

Glad to be your typoid mary

Careful with that CS though - it'll steal your life away worse than the game if you let it

[Breautiful]

heX you're a star. Time to open the CS for the first time. Because of you I am looking forward to living with a variety of hideous diseases.

S'lider,
do yourself a huge favor and get Pestilent Afflictions over at tesNexus. It makes the diseases worse and add a dizzyness effect. It also adds 2 new spells that cures 'weak' and 'normal' diseases. The normal (vanilla) Cure Disease spell cures all diseases.

If you decide to get Pestilent Afflictions then I suggest you change the vanilla Cure Disease spell to Master. This is simple too: On the left in the CS click Spells and find Cure Disease. The box that pops up has a bar at the bottom which says which mastery level the spell is. Change it to 'Master' and save the plugin. Make sure to load this plugin after your other magic changing mods.

As a side note:
After a while having been using Pestilent Afflictions (more than 2 years ago, I think) I got so excited about the change to the game that I decided to change all the ingredients with the Cure Disease effect, to make self-made Cure Disease potions more rare. This ended up being a complete overhaul of the ingredient effects since I really love the alchemy part of Oblivion. My own current (never released) Ingredient Overhaul mod covers all vanilla, SI and Cobl ingredients and it's been revised about 5 or 6 times ( :blink: ) just because I like tinkering with the effects and getting just right.
All that just for Pestilent Afflictions

[Mariaa EM.]

Since this Wrye Bash Bain thing looks really interesting, I figured I'd re-do my installation and try to use only Wrye Bash and BOSS to order most everything.

Since you guys generally have lots of good suggestions on things to do differently, I figured I'd post my own walkthrough here. Sounds fun to me, anyway. (Also, Delte, you can see how somebody who loves mods but just doesn't know anything about things like TES4edit.)

So, fresh clean Oblivion GOTY install. (Oblivion, GOTY, KotN. I'd have the other addons, but I've never found 'em on hard media.)


Now, I have the UOP and USIP in omod format, so I'll just tell OBMM to convert to archive and stick them safely in Wrye's Oblivion Mods\Bash Installers directory. (The reason why I'm using OBMM to export them is because the way TimeSlip packages the omods is really funky. Yes, technically they're a 7z archive, but the data structure is completely different then "just" a 7z file.)

Now, without even having to do something like open and close Wrye, the 7z file is recognized as a mod. It's got all the esp's I'm interested in, und VOILA! you tell it to install. One of the things I'm liking about this is that I have a list of esp's I can filter BEFORE the first install, instead of extract to a folder, go through by hand, move files, install, find out I missed something, rebuild the omod again, etc.

Wash, rinse, and repeat for USIP.

For the UOMPatches, there's a lot of esp's I can't use. In fact, all I need its the one for knights. Since I can filter what gets installed before installing, this makes it easy!

Now I need to install OOO. And then the OOO patch. So, since I don't need the esp and esm from OOO1.33, I'll just filter them out. (Because it's easy.) OOOhh.. (Sorry, I know, that was bad) I can highlight multiple modules and install them at once! This is something I've always wanted OBMM to have, since frequently there's five mods that don't conflict that I want to install as a batch.

But wait - the icon for OOO is yellow. It has 18 conflicts! What files are conflicted!? This could be really useful.

meshes\armor\cowlofthegrayfox\helmet_gnd.nif
meshes\armor\dwarven\m\greaves_gnd.nif
meshes\harvest\containers\XMSmiddlepaintingforest02b.nif
meshes\Weapons\Meteoric\met2hmace.nif
meshes\Weapons\Meteoric\metbow.nif
meshes\Weapons\Meteoric\metmace.nif
meshes\Weapons\Meteoric\metscimitar.nif
meshes\Weapons\Meteoric\metssword.nif
meshes\Weapons\Meteoric\metstaff.nif
textures\menus\icons\weapons\meteoric\metgreatmaceico.dds
textures\menus\icons\weapons\meteoric\metmaceico.dds
textures\menus\icons\weapons\meteoric\metscimitarico.dds
textures\menus\icons\weapons\meteoric\metsswordico.dds
textures\menus\icons\weapons\meteoric\metstaffico.dds
textures\weapons\hf1\steelclaymore_n.dds
textures\weapons\hf1\steellongsword_n.dds
textures\weapons\hf2\steelclaymore_n.dds
textures\weapons\hf2\steellongsword_n.dds

Hey, wait - aren't most of these fixed by the unofficial oblivion patch? A useful excerpt from the manual:

Install Order

? When you install a package, then the order of higher packages will be respected. I.e. if the package being installed conflicts with a higher order package that's already active, then it won't overwrite the files from the higher package. Rather, only the files that don't conflict with higher packages will be installed. (However, if you want to overwrite later packages, then you can use the "Install Last" command, which will move the selected packages to the end of the list and then install them.)

That's just awesome. Bash 3 (One extra point for an ordered conflict list, instead of listing the conflicting mod per file, which makes it hard to parse quickly) and OBMM 0.

Hmm. Lets test this.

I've just marked MMM 355 as 0, 355b5 as 1, and 3.7b as 2. Install them all at once...

Sure enough, all it installs from 355b5 is one nif file for a shirt. hahaha, that's awesome.

The annealing process it has is pretty sweet as well. This makes my life much, much easier. (OBMM is supposed to be able to back up and restore files correctly. In my experience, it does not always do so.)

I assume most of you have, at some time or another, had somebody hit you with a great big WTF!?!? I'M A MISSING MESH at some time or another. Tracking down missing meshes is, in my experience, a royal pain - what mod does item X come from? etc.

So lets uninstall MMM 355b1 and have BAIN do a scan. No wait, the file's still there. Um. *rummage* Aha! If I delete it by hand, and then do a partial (not even a full) rescan, which only takes less than a minute, it finds it's missing. Also, there's a command to only install missing files. That's so awesome.

When I uninstalled it, it automatically annealed the shirt.nif in question in from MMM 3.55.

Okay, so lets try doing a batch install of things.

I mean really doing a batch install of things.

First, Francesco's. It comes in these exe installer files, but that's not going to work for BAIN. However, we can specify the directory we want it to install to - and voila! 7z it up, stick it in the BAIN installers directory, and poof. Frans package for BAIN. So easy. (This way, it'd be easy to install Fran's with ALL options, and just disable the ones you don't want on the fly. Hmmm.) So.

Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items 4.5b
Oblivion Warcry 1.08b
Oblivion Warcry 1.085b patch
Bob's Armory
Loth's Blunt Weapons
Unofficial Fran's armor addons
Unofficial level 30+ fran's goodies

Now, admittedly, I did do some repackaging so the directory structure is what BAIN expects. However, I can do that in my sleep and not break my Oblivion install. (I also converted the .rar's into .7z's - 7z is a superior compression algo by far. Like, figure an additional 25% compression or so.)

The fact that if I have an esp or esm installed that I don't want, all I have to do is uncheck it and anneal and things are fixed, as opposed to rebuilding an omod or desyncing OBMM.

So far, this plus BOSS is equating to no need at all for OBMM.

I'm quite amazed.

Plus, if I need to install something later that needed to be installed much earlier, it's easy now - Tell it where to go in the list, select the esms/esps you need, anneal any that need it. Seems to do it automatically as part of the install, actually.

Okay. I'm sold on this BAIN thing!

Exnem's runeskulls always seemed like an unbalancing concept, but the pictures look pretty. Since this is so easy, I'll throw it in. It's easy to take out now.

Well

I kinda forgot to keep typing here I got so into it XD


AHHHH!!!!!

If you make a directory and copy other packages into it, you have a COMPLEX PACKAGE WITH SELECTABLE SUBPACKAGES.

>.>

I now have a package, "Sjadows Oblivion Sound Overhaul Selections" which contains MIS, MIS Edited, OSSO, Sounds & Storms, Audia Arcanum 2.0 and 2.1, and footsteps of heroism... BECAUSE I CAN!

Okay, it's obvious I've gotten distracted by the shiny new toy. *cough* So here's the simplified version of what I have installed:

USIP 1.4
USIP MODS FCOM patch (also 1.4 of course)
UOMP 1.5 (for KotN)
UOMP 1.5 MOBS
UOP 3.2.0
OOO 1.33
OOO 1.34 Beta 5
MMM 3.5.5 full
MMM 3.5.5 Beta 5
MMM 3.7 Beta and MMM for SI
Francesco's levelled items creatures 4.5b
OWC 1.08b
OWC 1.085b patch
Bobs Armory Oblivion 1.1
Loth's Blunt Weapons v3
Frans Armor Addon v2 + ordinator armor + bonemold helm resources
Frans level 30+ items
Exnem Runeskulls (If it makes me rich or overly powerful even after being nerfed, I'm dropping this)
FCOM Convergence 0.9.9 beta
FCOM Entropic Order rebalance
Streamline 3.1
More Immersive Sound v1.d
More Immersive Sound Edited by Brumbek v1.0
Oblivion Stereo Sound Overhaul by PsychEroc 0.9
Audia Arcanum Sound Overhaul by IlmrynAkios 2.0, 2.1, and FootSteps of Heroism
Storms and Sounds by Deathless Aphrodite and lilith v3
DarkUId DarN v1.6
DarkUId DarN recolour by Luchaire v1.5.5
Atmospheric DarkUI Loading Screens by Galahaut
COBL
COBL cosmetics res
Eyecandy Variants Expansion for HGEC (Modifies clothing/armor from stock, mmm, ooo, frans, fcom, armamentarium, etc for custom bodies)
NECs high-res textures (Gets rid of blockyness on the textures, I'm just running the 2048x2048's)
Alive Waters by Windsurfer v0.6
Supreme Magicka v0.88d (Because trying to play a mage in FCOM? Freaking impossible, you can't even get from the sewers TO vilverin unless your mage can sneak. Even then, I summoned a skeleton like 40 times just to kill 3 bandits, and almost died killing a bandit WHO HAD NO ARMOR after he was half dead already!)
Unique Landscapes. (Because vanilla was, well, vanilla.)
* NOTE - I built UL as a complex package. Excessively long file names like C:\Users\Your_Name\Desktop\Bethesda Softworks\Oblivion Mods\BASH Installers\Special Unique Landscapes BAIN package\Brena River Ravine by chuck21 Arthmoor IAMTHEEMPEROR v1.0.2\ cause Wrye BAIN to have a problem finding things. Then the file gets stuck in the installertemp folder, and even if you correct the pathing issues, it finds files with the same crc's in the installertemp folder and tries to use them. Which causes it to freak out again. Just so you know.
OBGE - This, since it's effectively just a .dll file, has to be installed by hand (i.e. I REALLY WANT THIS) because BAIN will skip batch files, dlls, exes, etc. for safety.
Enhanced Water SI 2.0
Enhanced Weather 1.3
Enhanced Weather 1.3.4 patch
Screeneffects by qzilla 1.0
Ambient Dungeons by KalendraStar v1.2.2
Rainbows in Tamriel by Deathless Aphrodite v3.0
Realistic Health by abo v2.2. (HI ABO!)
Realistic Fatigue by abo v1.2 (Still love your mods)
Realistic Levelling by abo v1.12 (Finally replaced my antique AFLevelmod with this.)
TIE-In by Ulrim v1.2 beta 3.
Unfathomed Tower by Trollf. (c'mon, it's by trollf.)


Now, while installing all of these, I've taken great care to try and only select the esms/esps I need. However, lets consult BOSS - and it gives me the following problems:
Cobl Tweaks.esp
!!! FCOM INSTALLATION ERROR: Delete. Already included in 'FCOM_COBL.esp'.
Item interchange - Placement.esp
!!! FCOM INSTALLATION ERROR: Delete. Use II's 'Item Interchange - Placement for FCOM' instead.
Looks like I made two mistakes total. Not bad - And easy to fix with BAIN. (If it were a manual install, I'd just delete. However, what if I deleted the wrong thing? Going back and forth with a file like OOO that takes a long time to decompress is such a pain.

And, should I ever need to rebuild the data directory again, it's insanely simple. Delete Data, copy my backup from the fresh install over.. BATCH INSTALL EVERYTHING because it remembers things like what esps I have unchecked.

Okay. Wrye BAIN got my vote!

Now, I'm using 54 mods (Just getting started lol - You'll notice I don't have any hunger/sleep mods yet, for instance, nor have I installed any texture packs - so far I've kept it down to a fairly small 2.61GB of 7z files.) I've only got 183 files/dirs in my Data dir.

Lots of these mods don't particularly like each other. That's what the Bashed patch is for.

Now, because I'm using Wrye bash, it's trivial to find out I'm missing 'you are here.esm' which ambient dungeons depends on - Guess I didn't read that well enough. so add that to the list. (Much better then "Hey, I wonder why Oblivion CTD's on start.)

It should be noted that item interaction is an exception. It's one of the few mods you'll ever use with missing masters, because it can *only* be used with bashed patches - it never actually gets to be active, as far as oblivion is concerned. One feature I'm not using right now is the ability of Wrye Bash to import a number of incompatible, say, eye mods. Yes, Wrye Bash can even help fix googly eye problems. (However, using both COBL races and Beautiful People was pushing it when I last tried it a year ago - lol. You could get it to work with some tinkering though.)

I now have a total of 96 things loaded, as far as Oblivion is concerned. Of course, lets go over it once more thoroughly with the tools at hand.

Hmmm. FCOM_TamrielTravellers should be removed, I didn't install that. Pulled. I forgot to pull that extra item interchange. Pulled.

Everything else looks good, for a rabid rush to install some random huge number of mods quickly with a new tool. In fact, it's much, much cleaner than the installs with OBMM, because repacking omods takes a long, long time, and so getting all the extra files out takes 10x as long as using BAIN does. As long as you're happy with defaults, there's not even any file editing. (I'm looking at you, Delte. Sheesh, do it all by hand but get all shivery at the parts that have to be done by hand... hehe


Congratulations! I have created a crash on load / crash on start new game problem! But we can get to the main menu just fine.

Lets uninstall some things. Lots of things.

... What do you mean, permission denied? it's my file. Also, nothing is accessing it. Ah, the joys of running windows 7 RC. Lemme reboot.
Nope, still a permission denied. Hrm. Let me check the security tokens on said file.

How the devil did footsteps of heroism get flagged READ ONLY!? If Oblivion tries to open files RW by default, that would explain a _lot_ about why it corrupts itself sometimes. Let me rebuild that. We also have a ton of missing files. I've been seeing this alot lately. Either I've got a RAM problem, or windows 7 RC VFS is screwy as hell.

*Does a bulk uninstall, then starts smaller batch installs, fixes a low-level issue with his solid state drive*

Oh hay, the DarkUId DarN recolor is breaking it. That's odd. Ah! Despite having no esp's / esm's, the install order needs to be DarkUId DarN, recolor, atmospheric screens.

Easy to adjust on Wrye BAIN, and if I uninstall everything and reinstall it all at once... The install order is honored.


So lets summarize what I just did: I installed 54 mods, crashed oblivion 3 or 4 times getting the issue with the menus modifiers sorted out, und voila. I have a fast-loading, fast-exiting oblivion that doesn't crash.

I repeat.

It does not crash on exit.
It exits quickly.

I'm running obse, obge, etc.

I think that right there says why wrye bashed patches and BOSS are considered so very, well, required, by so many players.

Delte - ordering modules for use with Wrye bashed patches can be different from how you'd order them if conflicts still caused one to win and one to lose all the time. For your consumption:

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  ScreenEffects.esm02  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm03  Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm04  EnhancedWeather.esm  [Version 1.3.4]05  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.70]06  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.34]07  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.7b1]08  FCOM_Convergence.esm  [Version 0.9.9a7]09  You Are Here.esm0A  Cobl Races.esp  [Version 1.52]0B  Cobl Races TNR.esp  [Version 1.53]0C  Cobl Races TNR SI.esp  [Version 1.53]0D  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.2.0]0E  UOP Vampire Aging & Face Fix.esp  [Version 1.0.0]0F  Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp10  DLCShiveringIsles.esp11  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.4.0]12  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp13  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp14  Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp15  Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp++  FCOM_Francescos.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp  [Version 0.9.9]16  FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp  [Version 0.9.9]17  Fran Armor Add-on.esp18  Fran_Lv30Item_Maltz.esp19  Atmospheric Loading Screens - Random Quotes.esp1A  EnhancedWeather.esp  [Version 1.3.4]1B  EnhancedWeather - SI.esp  [Version 1.3]1C  EnhancedWeather - Enhanced Seasons.esp  [Version 1.3.1]++  EnhancedWeather - Darker Nights, 80.esp  [Version Final]1D  Enhanced Water v2.0 HD - SI Addon.esp  [Version 0.1]1E  Symphony of Violence.esp1F  MIS.esp20  MIS Low Wind.esp21  MIS New Sounds Optional Part.esp22  Atmospheric Oblivion.esp23  Rainbows.esp24  AmbientDungeons.esp  [Version 1.2]25  AliveWaters.esp26  AliveWaters - Koi Addon.esp27  AliveWaters - Slaughterfish Addon.esp++  Item interchange - Extraction.esp  [Version 0.71]28  P1DmenuEscape.esp29  ExnemRuneskulls.esp++  FCOM_ExnemRuneskulls.esp  [Version 0.9.9]2A  Cobl Glue.esp  [Version 1.69]2B  Cobl Si.esp  [Version 1.63]2C  OOO 1.32-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.69]++  FCOM_Cobl.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  Cobl Tweaks.esp  [Version 1.44]2D  Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp2E  FCOM_BobsArmory.esp  [Version 0.9.9]2F  Loth's Blunt Weapons for Npcs.esp++  FCOM_LothsBluntWeapons.esp  [Version 0.9.9]30  Oblivion WarCry EV.esp31  FCOM_WarCry.esp  [Version 0.9.9]32  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.34]33  OBSE-Storms & Sound SI.esp34  FCOM_Convergence.esp  [Version 0.9.9]35  FCOM_OscurosOverhaul.esp  [Version 0.9.8]++  FCOM_EntropicOrderRebalance.esp  [Version 0.9.9beta2]36  FCOM_RealSwords.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_SaferRoads.esp  [Version 0.9.9]37  Mart's Monster Mod - Extra Wounding.esp  [Version 3.7b1]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp  [Version 3.7b1]38  Mart's Monster Mod - Zombies for Body Meshes.esp  [Version 3.7b1]39  Mart's Monster Mod - Vindasel.esp  [Version 3.7b1]3A  Mart's Monster Mod - Foxes.esp  [Version 3.7b1]3B  Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp  [Version 3.7b1]3C  Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp  [Version 3.7b1]3D  Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp  [Version 3.7b1]3E  Mart's Monster Mod - Durzog Addon.esp  [Version 0.10]++  FCOM_DiverseGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_BobsGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_Archery.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_FriendlierFactions.esp  [Version 0.9.9]3F  FCOM_MoreRandomSpawns.esp  [Version 0.9.9]40  FCOM_MoreRandomItems.esp  [Version 0.9.9]41  TIE In.esp  [Version 1.2b]++  TIE In - ExnemRuneskulls.esp  [Version 1.2b]++  TIE In - Cobl.esp  [Version 1.2b]42  TIE In - FCOM Convergence.esp  [Version 1.2b]++  TIE In - RealSwords.esp  [Version 1.2b]++  TIE In - MMM Craft.esp  [Version 1.2b]++  TIE In - DiverseGuardUnity.esp  [Version 1.2b]++  TIE In - BobsGuardUnity.esp  [Version 1.2b]43  Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 0.18]++  Fransfemale.esp44  OOO-WaterFish.esp  [Version 1.34]++  MMM-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.69]45  UnfathomedTower.esp46  Knights.esp47  Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.9]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Knights.esp  [Version 3.7b1]++  TIE In - Knights.esp  [Version 1.2b]48  Mart's Monster Mod - City Defences.esp  [Version 3.7b1]++  FCOM_Knights.esp  [Version 0.9.9]49  xuldarkforest.esp  [Version 1.0.2]4A  xulStendarrValley.esp4B  xulTheHeath.esp4C  XulEntiusGorge.esp4D  ULFallenLeafEverglade.esp4E  xulColovianHighlands_EV.esp4F  xulChorrolHinterland.esp  [Version 1.2.1]50  xulBeachesOfCyrodiilLostCoast.esp51  xulBravilBarrowfields.esp  [Version 1.3]52  xulLushWoodlands.esp  [Version 1.3]53  xulAncientYews.esp54  xulAncientRedwoods.esp  [Version 1.6]55  xulCloudtopMountains.esp56  xulArriusCreek.esp57  xulPatch_AY_AC.esp  [Version 1.1]58  xulRollingHills_EV_withoutWheat.esp  [Version 1.3.2]59  xulRollingHills_EV.esp  [Version 1.3.2]5A  xulPantherRiver.esp5B  xulRiverEthe.esp5C  xulBrenaRiverRavine.esp  [Version 1.0.2]5D  xulImperialIsle.esp  [Version 1.6.1]++  FCOM_UnofficialFranArmorAddon.esp  [Version 0.9.9]5E  Salmo the Baker, Cobl.esp  [Version 3.08]++  TIE In - Salmo, Cobl.esp  [Version 1.2b]5F  RealisticFatigue.esp60  RealisticHealth.esp61  SupremeMagicka.esp  [Version 0.88]62  SM_ShiveringIsles.esp  [Version 0.86]++  SM_OOO.esp  [Version 0.87]++  SM_MMM.esp  [Version 0.82]++  SM_COBL.esp  [Version 0.86]++  SM_AbsorbRestoration.esp  [Version 0.80]63  SM_EnchantStaff.esp  [Version 0.80]++  SM_UnlockSpells.esp  [Version 0.70]++  SM_Scrolls.esp  [Version 0.84]++  SM_SigilStone.esp  [Version 0.83]64  RealisticLeveling.esp++  Item interchange - Placement for FCOM.esp  [Version 0.71]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Resized Races.esp  [Version 3.7b1]65  Cobl Silent Equip Misc.esp  [Version 01]66  Streamline 3.1.esp++  EVE_StockEquipmentReplacer4FCOM.esp++  EVE_KnightsoftheNine.esp++  EVE_KhajiitFix.esp67  EVE_ShiveringIslesEasterEggs.esp68  Bashed Patch, 0.esp

P.S. ++ means the mod isn't actually loaded as a mod by oblivion. All of its content has been merged into the bashed patch. For lots of other things, especially levelled lists, are imported into the bashed patch.

So, in summary, I've decided I very enthusiastically like Wrye BAIN. In fact, I'm now using it instead of OBMM, which I expect I'll eventually remove from the system completely.

Anybody have any questions?

[James Shaw]

There's some good suggestions there about the alchemy ingredients. Pestilent Afflictions is a great mod and was being made too easy, also herbs being added via mods outside of their normally found areas compounded the problem. Mercer Meka I'd be interested to know what sort of changes you made to the ingredients.

[Umpyre Records]

(If you see img tags, click http://lh4.ggpht.com/_8_qEygTEx0c/ShSzGW36rlI/AAAAAAAAADc/skXfYouDkPM/s1600/ScreenShot4.jpg)
[img]http://lh4.ggpht.com/_8_qEygTEx0c/ShSzGW36rlI/AAAAAAAAADc/skXfYouDkPM/s1600/ScreenShot4.jpg[/img]

Why is Ahnssarra smiling, you ask, while the dead lay unburied and I steal their clothes?

It is simple, I mourn behind my smile. "q'zi no vano thzina ualizz" as my mother said.

Their clothes, though they smell of blood, are better than mine.

I was a good citizen, always smiling despite my discontent, never raucous, but dull, bland, obedient to the Mane. Why was I jailed then, you ask? For someone elses sin was I bound in this iron cage. No more! *hssst* Am I not Khajiit, am I not Ohmes-Rhat? I am fancy free, with nimble fingers, born even as Masser was new and Secunda waxed fresh. Like them, I am made new and grow strong from the blackness! Instead of biding my time in that damnable dirty cell speaking too much with poor Yorick, I shall be free instead. I will dance among their houses, I will pounce them from behind and find the sweet crunchy spot at the back of their necks, I will lay them to waste. They are MY prey. The ones who did this, and those false accusers, I shall indeed hunt them from the shadows, as a shadow, as a void in the shape of me - for if I am not there, how can they stop me?

Fate itself conspires to be my ally. Walls crumble at my glance, and I remember what magic I knew before.. Rrrrrrrr.

Enough. Ahnssarra has spent too much time speaking with ghosts.

[CHARLODDE]

There's some good suggestions there about the alchemy ingredients. Pestilent Afflictions is a great mod and was being made too easy, also herbs being added via mods outside of their normally found areas compounded the problem. Mercer Meka I'd be interested to know what sort of changes you made to the ingredients.

The changes I've made to the ingredient effects are very much linked to the way I play OB. I prefer for each character to be unique (unlike vanilla OB) and the way to do that is by restricting my self through mods.
Most 1st effects of all ingredients are pretty useless (Drain Att, Resist Poison and such). I've made it a lot harder for Novice alchemists to do anything useful with alchemy, I actually have to choose Alchemy as a Major skill to get proper benefits. Just the way I like it since otherwise all my characters would be on-the-side-alchemists.
The 2nd effects are slightly better, 3rd better still and 4rth the best effects (of course). I have many papers on my table where I've written everything down for each ingredient in order to get a proper balance.
During my revisions I've tested out all magic effects to see how well they work as potions in the game and I've settled on those that "works" the best in-game. For instance Drain Skill effects actually have very little impact although I originally thought it very cool to weaken my enemies Blade/Blunt skill. I tested this by using the console to see if my poisons affected the NPCs and noticing how effective the poisons were. They were hardly noticeable. Many effects doesn't work very well because their effects are so small.

I'm also using Progress with a very slow skill increase rating for my skills (for instance 0.14; Per potion made), this fits as well since there would be no point in making grant changes to all ingredients if I get to a high mastery level in Alchemy very fast.
Also I've balanced the alchemy equipment so you don't get uber potions (this is also a separate mod).


Sjadow,
that was a very good descriptions of BAIN "features". Thank you, that was very generous of you. I'll consider using it for sure.

[Richard Dixon]

I've not used BAIN, and I package my stuff for OBMM. One thing OBMM has that I don't think BAIN does is install scripts, which I find really really handy. These make it nice and easy to script up configuring complex mods. Personally I'd like to see OBMM grow decent bashed-patch support... but I dunno how easy that would be.

[ladyflames]

Thanks for the advice Mercer Meka.

I will try Pestilent Affictions, I'm sure Taiya will not thank me for making her life even harder than it currently is.

I take your point about nerfing the Cure Disease spell. I will certainly be doing this. To date I've never bothered with Cure Disease spells because diseases were so easy to cure with mandrake root (I never left home without it). As I'm going to remove that temptation I better change the equivalent spell as well.

You have clearly put a lot of time and thought into rejigging the ingredient effects. As I'm a keen alchemist (always have it as a major), I would love it if the fruits of your work were available to others (i.e. me!). Have you considered releasing your work on Tesnexus.

[J.P loves]

The changes I've made to the ingredient effects are very much linked to the way I play OB. I prefer for each character to be unique (unlike vanilla OB) and the way to do that is by restricting my self through mods.

It sounds like you've put a lot of work into your changes, my present melee/ranged character uses alchemy and greater/lesser powers only. The restricting of characters through mods is something I agree with, myself I've disabled the advancement of all magic skills, have a no starting spells mod but have to rely on "pretend" to not use spell scrolls.

[Josh Sabatini]

Sjadow,

that was a very good descriptions of BAIN "features". Thank you, that was very generous of you. I'll consider using it for sure.

My pleasure - I've uncovered a number of features through it since then I had no idea about (You can unistall a .7z package, decompress it to project, install it, tweak it in situ and then when it's working properly SYNC WHAT'S IN THE DATA DIR BACK INTO THE PROJECT! Perfect for doing DarnUId Dark, or editing the .ini's for abo's mods, changing the name and stats until you have a white Ohmes-Raht instead of a v2 tabaxi that hates khajiit (even though 'tis Khajiit!) or a v1 tabaxi called an Ohmes-Raht from COBL XD)

Sorry, I've gotten stuck in my "Do stuff, play the starting dungeon, change more stuff, play the dungeon, track down which mod puts item X in game, fix, play the first dungeon" rut again!

I did manage to get killed by the now dead emperor once too. He just ran in from the other room and started slashing at me. lol! Kind of pointless to fight when that happens XD

I've not used BAIN, and I package my stuff for OBMM. One thing OBMM has that I don't think BAIN does is install scripts, which I find really really handy. These make it nice and easy to script up configuring complex mods. Personally I'd like to see OBMM grow decent bashed-patch support... but I dunno how easy that would be.

ABO - This is a POV thing. Windows people who don't care how things work are going to love OBMM. (I know this is a gross generalization, but bear with me.)

There are effectively three kinds of mod user.

1) The most common, don't really have any clue what they're doing, or what the tools they have access to do, and aren't really going to change. Ever. No matter how fancy the screenshots are. I'm sure you get lots of complaints from these
2) The second most common are going to hit the somewhat more knowledgable stage. Then they will stop progressing. At most, they're going to be making custom omods. You get even more complaints from these because they're the ones who want you to make changes for their personal game. XD
3) People like me. I have a formID resolver as a spell. I picked up Tes4Edit in ten minutes because "that looks *so* simple, it's just an ordered attribute tree." I used to play with TES CS when morrowind was new. My 54 mod install was "highly conservative". I'm the kind of user who looks at you and says "ARGH! Windows command line is too limited, let me install cygwin so I can batch process data files from commandline." I want a very fine, very granular control over EVERYTHING. I run anything that I run across that contains the word "beta". I find mod conflicts "simple" given enough tools and information.

I doubt you get many users who say things like this:

I LOVE YOUR INI FILES! THEY TELL ME WHAT THE @$%^ KIND OF MATH IS GOING ON!

Btw, Realistic Fatigue doesn't give an error on invalid ini file. Also, in the starting dungeon... Ah snap, was it Baurus or Glenroy?

Here he is. Glenroy the Imperial member of the Blades.

His strength is *20*. He's carrying 97 of 100 feathers.

He's really annoying to walk behind. I feel like he ought to be an old man or something.

Btw, those are his stats with just the official content loaded in tes cs. When I got debug text on him in-game with my mods, he was at precisely 100 of 100 for his inventory weight. If I'd added Reneers gold mod, he'd've probably fallen down. XD Kind of explains why he dies doesn't it? lol.

So, there are at least a minority of people who prefer having very fine controll over the mod, editing .ini's and such directly, and so on. And, quite frankly, making a BAIN installer file is pretty easy. As a matter of fact, with some scripting changes you could make a single .7z file that could be used as an omod OR as a Wrye Bash BAIN installer. All you'd have to do is have two .ini's - One in the base dir with the default values for BAIN users, and one in a subdir for your installer script to parse and overwrite the "defaults" one that's there for BAIN users.

As far as decent bashed patch support... To really implement a thing like that, obmm would have to be rewritten in python or perl. Those are the only two languages I can think of offhand that really lend themselves to this kind of data manipulation. Also, I've had a lot of problems with OBMM and its occasional inability to put things back "like they were". I have BAIN set up so that if I uninstalled all of my mods, I would automatically anneal back to the original oblivion Data-dir install. This gets rid of all kind of breakage that can happen with OBMM when you're testing mods. That, and the ability to fine-tune how a mod is installed and have it remembered automatically, for me, is just a huge improvement. I mean, consider this - if I uninstall all my UI mods on an obmm install, I effectively *break* oblivion and I'm missing a couple of .bik movies. If I do it the way i have BAIN set up, it doesn't break... It anneals the original files from my 7z backup of the data dir I created when I tried to accomplish the same thing with OBMM (and OBMM freaked out and died over it.) Given these things, as much as I respect TimeSlip for lots of really awesome stuff from morrowind days of yore to now, I would *not* want to see OBMM try and do something as complex as the behind the scenes processing to create a bashed patch is now. We're not just talking levelled lists, but scripts, graphics, NPC changes, tweaks, names, morphing large sets of data... Remember, as it stands Wrye's BASH contains as subfeatures (BAIN, for instance) things which would usually be their own complete tool. Effectively, it is *the* swiss knife of the Oblivion modding world. As many problems as I've had with OBMM not doing quite what it says it will, the idea of it doing a bashed patch makes me twitch. It's a lot better than it used to be -- but BAIN has all the features that I've always wanted in OBMM.

That being said - I am not most users! I've been checking out some files which have both BAIN and OMOD-ready formats, and I'm seeing perhaps 1/4th to 1/3rd of those who install the really large mods will download BAIN archives. I imagine a significant percentage of those users are wondering what BAIN is and download the archive just to check it out.

That being said, a BAIN compatible archive is automatically manually installable and has a certain kind of common structure. The complex structure is very useful - For example, allowing me to consolidate all of my sound overhauls - for mod install file number reduction. (The fact I can turn it into a project, the project inherets the correct load order, I can tinker with things until I'm satisfied in-situ and then sync from the data directory back to the project, re-7zip things and voila! is priceless.)

Basically, BAIN has all the features that the lack of in OBMM has driven me up the wall. For me, BAIN is effectively my dream list of OBMM features  Batch {,un}installing, annealing so I never end up missing a file, tracking conflicts so I can find easily what packages provide versions of what file, (i.e. I know this package has this file, but this is a different one, who put it here?), fine tuning, treating an installer as an editable project and synchronizing out-of-data-tree so I don't have to copy everything I change back manually, tracking not just what but HOW I have things installed, easy to ADD comments to any existing install file (TESNexus links, for instance) - For that matter, I just found out that if you include -tesnexusnumber at the end of the filename, you can right click it in BAIN and go straight to the site. Plus easily dozens of other features that just make my life so much easier.

That being said, again, I'm not your common user, by any means. If you came out with a BAIN-only version, I'd be rather shocked. However, since BAIN plays nicely with .omod info (even to letting you edit the basic information when it's in project form), I wouldn't be surprised to see more and more people support both BAIN and omod installers in the same archive. BAIN was actually designed with this in mind. Most users are perfectly happy installing an omod and calling it good. Me, things like OOO are a pain - I'm inevitably mis-clicking something, and having to re-select everything just gives me an equal chance to do it again, the 7zip dll OBMM uses isn't multithreaded and the extra file processing really slows down {,de}compression, ` you can't select compression options easily, and installing a 500MB file like OOO actually results in "Double-click omod.. play oblivion for awhile.. Select options... Try to play Oblivion... Ack, I missed X or clicked X by mistake. Again."

Um. I think that's all I really need to try and finish getting out of the default dungeon. I also need to add some clothes to the game. I wonder if anybody ever ported CanadianIce's morrowind robes, they were good and there's a sore lack of mage-friendly clothing for hgec. ("It's a string bikini made of enchanted tissue!" yuck. Disgusting.) (P.S. - I use HGEC because the skin texures are better, and parts of exnem frustrate me, and I could find OOO/MMM/Frans/FCOM/Stock clothing and armor replacers for it.)

Okay, it's early, obviously my coffee is taking effect. I'm going to go play now

(Effectively what you're seeing, is that in two days of using BAIN, I've become a rabid fan of it. I know, I know, I'm crazy.)

;)

[Josh Trembly]

Delte, I once said I was trying out some big quest mods, and that I would post my reviews of them. I just finished the fight for castle Ravenpride.


The Fight for Castle Ravenpride

Overall, I give it an 8. :thumbsup:

The quest is very good, and well written. It's shorter than I thought it would be though, and that is my only gripe about that.

The castle itself, from a distance, appears to be a grand, large castle. However, it is not. It has a wall (with towers that you can't get into) surrounding the keep, and two small shacks (the smith and merchant) The keep is a tower, in which there are three large rooms. That's it, just those three rooms. The bottom floor is a throne room/dining room. The second floor is the guard quarters. The third floor is your private quarters. You can go onto the top of the tower, and there is quite a view.
So, the castle is much smaller than expected.



I'm playing with Duke Patrick's basic Hypothremia, so this is a dangerous location. It's high in the snowy mountains, so I have to really work to stay warm. Even the interior of the castle is quite cold, so I opened it up in the CS, and put a few braziers in it, like the ones in Skingrad county hall.


I beat the quest, which is not scaled, and is designed for level ~20 characters, with my level 10 mage. I did not cheat, and don't think I really abused any spells.
I play with Midas magic, and Supreme Magicka. I used the Midas Explosive arrow spell twice, and only hit with it once. I used the Midas Force Push spell once. I played it smart, and tried to use chokepoints wherever I could, and tried to keep my companions and summons between myself and the enemies. I'm starting to think Midas and Supreme Magicka are a little overpowered, but I much prefer using them to struggling to do anything with the weak vanilla magic system.

[Hope Greenhaw]

There's been an update for Enhanced Campfire Behavior by Prometheus http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13101

I've been using this mod for a while now, it adds a lot of realistic fun to the game. I can light a fire anytime anywhere now with the use of firelogs that can be gathered from most fires. I've only just updated from the previous version and so far the only problem I can see is the script added to torch02 by Oscuro's is overwritten. I use DropLitTorchOBS.esp myself now. The player home fireplaces could be a little stubborn to light with the previous version but a firelog taken from a another fire can be placed and lit in the home so I never saw it as an issue. The only other thing I could notice was mostly in dungeons when a fire was out that was normally lit all the time in vanilla oblivion the artificial light source for that fire was still active.

I had this battle with a high level necromancer, during which the lit braziers either side of him seemed to react to the spells he was casting. This made the battle pretty spectacular, I was hard put not to get distracted and killed. Another time, it was dark and I was filthy from exploring/killing creatures in a dungeon and not wanting to turn up in an inn asking for a room in that condition decided to go for a quick swim. I was able to light a fire on the shore to act as a little beacon to get back safely.

Also @ Ben This is perfect for Duke Patricks basic Hypothermia, which I use myself.

There is some compatibility issues with Real Lights which I don't use myself so I'm not sure if load order will enable both to be used.

[P PoLlo]

There's been an update for Enhanced Campfire Behavior by Prometheus http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13101

There is a small problem I'm having with the update. From the readme l): Arcane University Braziers and Talos Bridge Braziers have been given the Magicka enhancement ability. An adventurer can apply a 'touch' or 'target' spell to the brazier which causes a large Arcane flame to be created. Jumping into the flame will then apply a long lasting Magicka fortification spell to the adventurer, of approximately the same value of the cast spell.

The fortification is being applied to my character without my having cast any spells, which makes me think it may be spells from scripts affecting it. Until I hear back from Prometheos about it, I've temporarily disabled this part.

[Jenna Fields]

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=24652

This is a cool mod, that gives the city guards new swords, that have the city colors and symbols on the pommels.

It's German, but if that bothers you, it wouldn't be hard to rename the swords in the CS.

I don't know if it would distribute the swords properly to all the guards with OOO...

Katnap; I've downloaded the mod, and I'll try it next time I get a good chunck of time to play. I won't try to use the magical fire though, thanks for the heads up.

Any idea what the incompatibility with real lights is? Is it serious? I don't use it, but was thinking of switching from Darker Dungeons to Let there be Darkness+Real Lights for my next character.

[BethanyRhain]

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=24652

This is a cool mod, that gives the city guards new swords, that have the city colors and symbols on the pommels.

It's German, but if that bothers you, it wouldn't be hard to rename the swords in the CS.

I don't know if it would distribute the swords properly to all the guards with OOO...

Katnap; I've downloaded the mod, and I'll try it next time I get a good chunck of time to play. I won't try to use the magical fire though, thanks for the heads up.

Any idea what the incompatibility with real lights is? Is it serious? I don't use it, but was thinking of switching from Darker Dungeons to Let there be Darkness+Real Lights for my next character.

I've never used real lights but I'm assuming from the comments posted that its to do with the campfires. I've disabled the scripts on the magical braziers because the spell effect happens if you go near them instead of just using them, also the four npc's who are included in the mod have not been given eyes so wrye bash updates the npc's with eyes making the mod a master of the bashed patch. This makes it impossible to deactivate the mod temporarily because the patch is deactivated as well. I've fixed this part myself by allocating eyes to the npc's so that I can deactivate the mod anytime I need to.

The only big problem I have found apart from the above is to do with the companion quest mod Ruined Tale

Spoiler

I had to disable the campfire mod because it messed up the event at the inn causing the fires to appear straightaway and remain permanently afterwards

I deactivated it and reactivated it after with no problems.

The old version 2.1 is still available and I've used that for quite a while with no problems, although it has to be deactivated temporarily before beginning the above mod.

[Baby K(:]

Oh, I'll have to keep that in mind as well, I use RTT (not the new 3.0 version though... That's something else I need to update... For my next character).

I have never gotten very far in his quest, only to the point

Spoiler

where he leaves you, and while I know where he goes, I was low level at the time.

[Ernesto Salinas]

I'm about to embark on my first foray into Oblivion and I was immediately pulled in by the very encompassing opening post of this thread. (What can I say, I'm a svcker for well-woven prose... and the use of a narration style always seems to draw me in.)

I'm actually coming over from playing/meddling with Fallout3 (some may say a slight backwards step, but I've been away from the fantasy genre for far too long, and I'm looking forward to once again skulking in shadows with just my sword, my wits, and a few nasty tricks to keep me alive). I'd considered taking a shot at the 'Survival' style mods available for FO3, but as I'd already been playing for a while, I know that I'd likely end up cheating somewhere to smooth over some change that I wasn't expecting, and ruin the point of using the mods to begin with. (Not to mention that a lot of the gameplay effects put in place to hinder the player would have no similar drawbacks on the various NPCs you'd encounter, unlike what I've read about many of the gameplay adjustments made to Oblivion.)

So, I'm looking forward to coming in to Tamriel with a bustling and likely very unforgiving world around me.

That said, what would be a good 'Alternate Start' or 'Main Quest Delayer' mod, so that a character can come into the world and have a bit of self-development, rather than just thrust into jail cell for no known reason? I've looked over a few, and I'm not sure which to pick...

'Alternative Start Arrive by Ship' by Robert Evrae looks promising, but it completely negates the player's involvement in the events surrounding the Emperor's death, and would feel like it would dull the impact of the request made of you in starting the Main Quest.

Nordsman's 'Delayed Main Quest' looks to allow time to explore the world and begin finding your place in it, but it also looks like it arbitrarily "begins" the MQ upon reaching a level or guild rank, again bypassing the opening sequence of events.

'MOE Main Quest Delayer with Alive Kvatch' released by Velzevul looks to have the absolute most promise... with the major drawback being that Kvatch Rebuilt's files are required (but not activated), and I'm unsure how far-reaching the impact would be with both major changes possibly causing conflicts down the line*. As well as the need to turn off this mod upon ending the "Tutorial Quest", and either turn on 'Kvatch Rebuilt', or continue with the normal MQ.

Although, I'm supposing there may be a few others that I might have overlooked... any thoughts?

[Victoria Bartel]

I'm using 'MOE Main Quest Delayer with Alive Kvatch' this one takes a bit of effort to set up, I ended up having to unpack the kvatch bsa and put it in am omod to get it to work with the mod. You have the kvatch esm and main quest delayer esp activated. Then deactivate the esp as you mentioned once you decide to start the main quest. I'm only up to level 8 with this set up though and nowhere near ready to start the main quest. So far I've not noticed any problems except instant ctd upon exiting the game. The good thing about this mod is the guards all talk normal rumours, all the evidence of the main quest seems to be suppressed very well. It's a much better atmosphere to level up and do your own thing for a while. I've not got up to deactivating the esp yet so I can't say how it will go after that.

[Kelly John]

I just noticed 'http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=23757' last night (after I posted, of course... heheheh)...

At first glance, I think it might have the utility and variety that I'm looking for... It doesn't have the sweeping changes (namely allowing access to a pre-seige Kvatch), but it does allow for enough variables to allow for a unique start for just about any character type or background, and it sticks to the vanilla MQ, unless you bypass the story through your own actions. But, I'm still not 100% decided between this or the 'MOE Delayed Start...'

I'll probably finish my mod installations, and make up my mind on the Alternate Start last of all... (so if there are any other opinion, feel free to to pipe in... heheheh)

[JESSE]

The crafting addition to MMM is the most "intuitive" crafting system for OB that I've seen so far, and covers a fairly wide variety of in-game items, even though it's not "complete". It's certainly easier than the quirky "make functional" spells with Craftybits, and far more encompassing than the handful of mining and smithing mods that have been done. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to function without MMM. I'd really like to see this in a seperate form, so I don't have to take it along with all the the funky "slimes", "beholdens", and other bizarre creatures that MMM adds to the game.

Is there another decent OB crafting mod that I'm overlooking?