I'm being somewhat harsh towards D3, but I enjoyed the game. The difference between D1/2 and D3 is that I only played D3 for 2 or 3 years as opposed to over a decade. Ship movement is the most important fix needed for D4, but it's important to recognize this as a fix and not an addition or improvement. The AB MD combo isn't even the reason I quit playing. It was the MD itself which became the only weapon that would allow you to win that was the problem. You didn't have to lead, just point, click, boom, one shot = one kill. The MD or any weapon like it should be excluded from a sequel if gamesas seriously wants the new game to be a hit.

If they have to keep it, it might be doable with shield and hull strengths. Perhaps it can't get through shields, and just bounces off but on an exposed hull would do massive damage.

The afterburner should drain massive energy and using it should leave you pretty much drained and looking for a recharge. It should hurt you enough to make any pilot hesitate before using it. This would give you the option of flight, but if you've been fighting and depleting your energy it will prevent you from becoming someone elses cheap point. This works for single player as well, forcing a player to think before charging into a room with 100 robots in it.

I'm still for the hud if for no reason other than the visibility. I understand you like the cockpit idea, but honestly, I don't see that as a necessary addition. Supporting multiple monitors on the other hand would be cool. You could view system status and energy levels, etc... on a 'cockpit like' view on a second screen, viewable with one screen by pushing a button. Though between pushing a button, and having it on a hud, I'd take the hud.

As for more ideas:

Homing missiles, since they don't require lock, make it possible for the missile to be 'shaken' onto the tail of another target (possibly the person who fired the in the first place).

Feature the use of magnets in the environment. Someone killing you with the vauss/vulcan? go near a huge magnet that either attracts or repels the bullets. (Yes I realize that bullets wouldn't normally be attracted or repelled by a magnet, but it's just the start of an idea.) This would also allow for creative arced firing lines as well as making it possible to dodge bullet or missile attacks. (I suppose missiles would be affected as well.)

*some of these ideas I'm writing as I think of them so they are pretty raw. Were I to ponder over them some I would probably come up with something that made more sense. Welcome to my disorganized mind.

Back to the shields and hull idea, have shields allow you to go places such as inside a lavaflow, or into a radiated area, that would be damaging with only hull.

Maybe it would be fun to capture and reprogram a robot to do something like dig a tunnel or go on a suicide mission to flip a switch for you? More of a single player option, but still fun. Though programming one to blow itself up in another players face might be enjoyable. In multiplayer this should be limited to one slave bot at a time, or this could get annoying.

More to come...

Should we put the HUD in the helmet or project it onto the cockpit window of the ship? If we put it in the ship's window then it is possible that EMP style attacks could disrupt the images.

I like the idea of customisation, but I appreciate that not everyone else does. I've said this in a previous post before, but in multiplayer perhaps we should have two different match options. Think of CoD4's hardcoe option. Enabling this could make it old school Descent, ie. 100+ missiles, no customisation, etc.

I've been a fan of the MechWarrior games, so I'd suggest a three tier armour system. On the outside you'd have shields. Perhaps emitters could be modified so that shield strength could be enhanced in certain areas outside of the ship, or even change the shape of the shield? Next would be armour strength, each unique to the section of the ship. Wings could have low armour, cockpit could have high armour, etc. Then would be chassis/internal strength. If this was damaged then weapons could be disabled, efficiency could be lowered, etc.

I've never understood the lasers in Descent. The speed of light is approximately 3x10^8, but the lasers always travel so slowly. I heard somewhere that the explanation for this was because they were contained in a magnetic field or something (memory's vague). Pehaps at the expense of damage the field could be taken off so the laser would act like a laser, and because it no longer has any magnetic field it does bugger all against shields.

I also don't like all of the hitscan (instant hitting) weapons in the game (yes, I know I just posted the laser above. I'm a hypocrit, but I know it). So can we make the vulcan/vauss/gauss/mass driver have some kind of speed, even if it's really fast? At least then it's avoidable.

I still think some close-range weapons should exist. The omega has little range, so it takes skill to get that close in the first place. The fusion takes skill to use anyway. The only problem is the damage they do; a lot. Nerf them a little bit.

That's about it for now. More to come when I have a few minutes to think. A massive thank you to EA for:
- Producing great quality games time and time again
- Providing excellent technical support
- Never destroying any highly acclaimed studios for profit
- Never ripping people off
- Never wasting people's time

The Mechwarrior series, don't get me started - I spent ten years of my life thoroughly enjoying that superb game, I agree that a new Descent could well benefit from some of the Mechwarrior hull integrity, shielding region ideas, that game was always way ahead of it's time (Mechwarrior 2, Mechwarrior 2: Ghost Bears Legacy, Mechwarrior 2: Mercenaries and somewhat Mechwarrior 3 - But the childish cartoon like Mechwarrior 4 really riled me up after I played it, the graphics were way backwards from MW3 in all but the Desert scenarios. Microsoft destroyed that game and my hopes slowly from MW3 onwards!!!).

and when...


You give me an Idea: The mass driver is intended to be a sniper rifle by default, and it's problem was that you hardly had to use it as one because it reloaded so fast. Perhaps the way to fix this would be to use a point Lazar that could fire for about 3/4 of a second, and the heat from it would svck down your afterburner almost instantly. The shot would not only have to hit the target, but stay on the target making the use of this weapon rare, but effective because the user would have to hit the target, and keep a beat on him for the duration of about a 1/2 second. (longer than one might suspect in multiplayer) A single hit kill is still possible as all snipers like it, but only if they hit the target fully. and after they shoot. The sniper will then be stuck without an afterburner to retreat with until it recharges.

The afterburner could actually cost no energy now, but it could act as a limit to the amount you can output from your ship.

another idea mentioned lazar speed. I know the lazer would be better suited with the name of "particle cannon" if we named it so, what would you think if you could acquire a particle accelerator? This item could increase the velocity of certain weapons, like fire the lazar to the speed seen for the plasma cannon in D1. This could be an interesting thought, because then different weapons may gain different strengths when you find these things. A weapon you thought useless before can become terrifying after especially if only certain types of weapons benefit from it, like the quads could only affect the lazar cannon.



and...


careful though... Freespace uses such plating, and that may be too much for some gamers.
Although seeing that no one has complained yet, I would like to hear more...

That's what I was concerned with when I posted the idea; overcomplicating things.

Either you could have it so armour levels are unique to each part of the ship, or you could have it so that hitting certain parts of the ship would cause damage based on the level of armour placed there. The latter idea would keep things simple to the player as he only has to read from a percentage as opposed to multiple armour levels.

Now for an example:

My wings have a lower armour rating than my hull. I am hit there by plasma fire for, say, 11 points of hull damage. The next plasma shot hits me in my hull causing only 8 points of damage.

You know, let the computer do the number-crunching work. A massive thank you to EA for:
- Producing great quality games time and time again
- Providing excellent technical support
- Never destroying any highly acclaimed studios for profit
- Never ripping people off
- Never wasting people's time

So far it sounds ans though most of you agree that the game should add a lot more realism to the way the pyro reacts to the environment (being shot affecting the pilot in the cockpit, armor, cooling systems). This all seems good, except that it will make gameplay a lot more bogged down with details. It would be very hard to integrate all of these ideas without reducing the player to looking at ship stats all the time.

Have any of you played Freespace? Those games had many of the features which you have all mentioned. It had a wonderful energy transfer system that allowed you to shift your energy from weapons to shields to engines. Lasers overheated, and stopped firing, you got hull damage, and your shield had 4 different hit zones.
This all worked well, but often, you could die because you were searching for the right control among the hundreds. I think that an interface that complicated might kill descent, which is a lot more fast paced and FPS-like than Freespace which plays a bit more like an RTS.

I feel that the most important additions to Descent 4 are the obvious graphics overhaul (that in itself might be enough to sell it), and a real storyline.

Incidentally, what does Zelda have to do with descent, Hotshotpilot?

it goes like This: Zelda was a 2d questing game, and the first of it's kind. The game is alive and well today through games like "Zelda, twilight princess," and "Zelda, Phantom Hourglass" and the thing you notice is that the game is unarguably a Zelda game. The reason is that the important things like the characters and the quest for items and/or the princess. If people had said how the first Zelda game was the best, and that nothing could be better than it, there would not have been successors as there are today.

Now obviously Descent is not centered around the story and the mission objectives (though they are important too) The game is centered around gameplay both competitively and objectively. The weapons require an understanding of how to find the lead on a moving target. The game is made for players to enjoy as a FPS, but also as a 6DOF, because of the size limitations of the rooms, and the varying weapons, which include no BFG ("Big Friendly Gun" shall be the only interpretation for this acronym) make the player use wartime strategy to outsmart his opponents.

I'm certain I left one of the things that make Descent Descent, but don't complain until you have an idea that meets the following to tag to it:

By re imagining the game without leaving out these aspects, but that builds upon them, we make the game even better. We want to bring those games to life as games which are separate in their own right (D2 was better off as an expansion), but that still bear the worthy name of the series.

Zelda did this, and we have the opportunity to shape D4 like few gamers dream of.
We get to help brainstorm what to put in the sequal to an epic game that has not been seen in almost 8 years. If it is made, we will get to experience the equivalent (relatively speaking) of playing the first Zelda game and getting to tell it's designers what you want in the latest Zelda Game 8 years later.

When I learned how much the old fan base wanted so little change, I decided to make this forum for you 24-30 year old gamesters to see what we youngsters had for ideas, and what you liked. I seem to be the only youngster in the crowd, but that suits me, I have posted my Ideas, and I want you guys to tell us what you think of them.

Though I find a lot of the suggestions here interesting, I dont think the game would be as fun if I had to focus on shield locations, armor placement, and hitting a bunch of additional keys while I am playing the game. Descent has always been about fast paced, frenzy style action. To detract from this would be a big minus in my opinion.

I have no disagreements there. As someone who has played Freespace, I Think the game was fun as far as flight simulators go, but it was too complex to be considered anything else. I think reimagining the health bar for descent will detract from the FPS elements of the game. You have live MD's and Dead MD's. Nothing revolutionary seems to step forward.

Yet we have seemed to hardly scratch the surface on other ereas. The ideas concerning what new weapons should come out. The statements we have had have been about how to fix the Mass Driver.
The idea was simple: The weapon would be a point lazar that fires for up to 3/4 of a second, draining energy, and causing great heat. The so-called "sniper" would not have to lead his opponant, but stay on target for the duration of the shot. Once fired though, the AB cooler would have to cool it in order for it to fire again, leaving the "sniper" temporarily helpless to retreat should he miss. comments concerning the "Homing Lazar." Perhaps a description of It's strengths would be of use.

As a weapon that would not be mounted in the Ship's cannons, It could act as a weapon to pair with another one, should weapon combos be allowed in D4, and act as a tracking weapon like the EMD with a smaller turning radius, but with a slower velocity and rate of fire. The last weapon idea concerned adding weapon mods. If we have certain weapons set with certain mods, we could resurrect old weapons like the Pheonix by giving certain mods to other weapons like the plasma cannon. Then the idea of adding things like particle accelerators to other weapons to make them move faster.

The questions then become the following: Is it a good idea to have weapons cooled by the AB cooler and if so, should the AB cooler cool all weapons, or cost any energy for the afterburner? Should this new mass driver have any other caveats besides the ones listed? Should there be a weapon like the Homing lazar for D4? Lastly Do any weapons really need mod's or upgrades for single player to let old weapons gain new strengths and multiplayer to let all weapons get better as the players live longer (like the lazar upgrades in D1 & D2)

I have tried to represent the interests of younger gamers, being one of the younger Descent fans, but I know gamesas does not want to alienate it's fan base. Your comments will help them guage what ideas they should or shouldn't use in D4.

Environmental-wise, Webby's post on your Epic for 2009 forum sounds very interesting. Webby suggested a forest level if they feel the need for outdoors, thereby keeping the claustrophobic atmosphere even outside.

I like this idea very much.

The sniper laser is an interesting idea, but it would make more sense if it 'pulsed' as in say it takes 6 seconds to fire and the first second is a warm-up period where if someone is being targeted they are warned and can get the hell out, then the power increases for the next couple of seconds before tailing off at the end. It could be integrated into the story as a heavy cutting laser used for mining. I just can't support a weapon that is so effective that all the high scorers use it in multiplayer. If you have weapon choices split almost evenly when it comes to preference then you have a good balanced game. The preference here though, is to not have any kind of sniping weapon. It doesn't really make much sense to have a sniping weapon in descent anyway unless you are trying to appeal to the players that will download the game off of bittorrent and play it for 3 or 4 weeks before discarding it.

I have to disagree with the poster who said descent is a fast frenzy of fighting. Descent is a deliberate and tactical game where flight skills can help you, but playing smart helps you more. D3 was nothing but speed, speed, super one shot = kill weapons, and speed. Please gamesas, for the sake of all the old school fans, don't make D4 be like this. We need a return to the slower ships that punished you for making a bad decision, and allowed you to effectively use a keyboard to fly. THAT is the most important update needed to the game. This is from me, and I've seen the same thing repeatedly stated all over this forum by other people. If you only take one idea or suggestion from these forums let it be that.

That's an interesting idea, I don't lnow how it could be pulled off but it's certainly going in an interesting direction (The guns on the ships wings may clip trees causing an issue, unless the shields are the hit zones for environmental objects rathetr than the hull?!)

I don't know whether I would prefer to see a cutscene or in-game rendering of the mine escapes, or actually fly out of them myself?! There are two sides here, one is you're frantic to reach the surface and moving as fast as you can by physically controlling the ship from the normal perspective, maybe the afterburner comes in handy here to aid in your escape down the fast moving/twisting tunnels? But, then there's the issue of not seeing the explosion that's chasing you up and out of the mines beacause it's behind you as per the cutscenes? mabe the ship could take on a graphical effect like NASA Space Shuttles do on re-entry into the atmosphere, the more burning around the ship, the closer the explosion is to engulfing your PYRO, once you vision is near to diminshed (Surrounded/engulfed by the firey explosion) you have failed to escape the mines and it's mission over, sound interesting?!

I think going too technical with the ships stats could detract from the fun, but it's an idea, maybe something to research. D4 needs to do something that makes people go WOW...just WOW when they see it, just as Descent's 360 degrees of freedom did for me back in my Packard Bell Pentium 60MHZ with 500mb hard drive days

Before I start let me just say that this is only an idea, and something interesting to think about, not something that I have thought all the way through. Hopefully my ideas help spark others from all of you as well. That said:

On the idea of exiting the mines, Instead of looking for the exit, it would make more sense for the exhaust shaft to be near the power center or reactor. It could potentially be fun to have an obstacle course of crap falling down at you and bots trying to escape coming from behind you that is not accessible until the core is blown. In fact, you could make a mini game out of it where people compete for the best escape times.