Destroying The World and Killing LORKHAN...

Post » Sat Apr 09, 2011 5:18 pm

Since Lorkhan's heart is part of Mundus,...

Does Alduin's eating of the world kill Lorkhan?
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*Chloe*
 
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Post » Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:12 am

:shrug: ???YES??? :shrug:
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Tai Scott
 
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Post » Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:21 pm

Since Lorkhan's heart is part of Mundus,...

Does Alduin's eating of the world kill Lorkhan?

I thought the Nerevarine destroyed the heart.... :shrug:
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Justin Hankins
 
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Post » Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:01 pm

The Nerevarine destroyed the enchantments on the heart, letting it return to its owner.

As for the eating of the world, Aldudagga answers it thus:

"And the Greedy Man always waves his arms about around this time as if to stop me just like you. It is almost as if you two work together to delay me. Is that what this is? Is some other low spirit hiding portions of the world while you two do this thing? Is this why the kalpa-feast always takes a little longer than it did the previous time?"

And then Alduin looked hard into the eyes of both the Greedy Man (far away) and the Leaper Demon King (close up), one of them for each eye of his own, and he knew it was so. These two spirits gulped big, and were caught.

"Oh crap," the Greedy Man said, "He knows my bargain with the king of leapers, I'd better hide under my mountain!" but he thought and said all this too fast and, without thinking, hid under his mountain even though its base had already been eaten and so it wasn't all still there. (This is how the Greedy Man became trapped both in and outside of kalpas.)

"Oh crap," said the Leaper Demon King, "You have found us out, World-Eater! Yes, just after the two bells of the All-Maker's Goat sound the Greedy Man and I and our servants hoard bits and bobs of the world so you can't eat it all. And when the world comes back we sort of just stick these portions back on and so that's why it is all bigger and bigger for you to eat each time.


A similar sentiment is repeated in the Redguard creation myths. Basically, some spirits have found a way to bypass the eating of the world, and Lorkhan (the Greedy Man, Sep) is one of them.
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Katie Samuel
 
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Post » Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:54 pm

Lorkhan is already dead.
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Chris Guerin
 
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Post » Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:18 pm

Lorkhan has a living heart...a heart which it has never been confirmed was destroyed.

A heart which cannot be destroyed for it is the heart of the world...

How can he be dead?
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Beulah Bell
 
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Post » Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:31 pm

Since Lorkhan's heart is part of Mundus,...

Does Alduin's eating of the world kill Lorkhan?

Going by Shor, Son of Shor, I'm going to say: kinda.

Lorkhan will be dead, but the next world will still have a Lorkhan in it. Maybe the same Lorkhan, maybe a different Lorkhan, maybe both at the same time.
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Amy Cooper
 
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Post » Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:14 pm

How can he be dead?


You said yourself that he was dead in another thread, so I don't understand the confusion. The heart of Lorkhan is a locus of power, but it's very clearly not in Lorkhan's chest. Lorkhan has been dead since the Dawn, and that's essential to the mythos.
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Erika Ellsworth
 
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Post » Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:04 pm

Lorkhan is dead. The only thing that remains of him is his heart and his decaying body (Two Moons: Masser and Secunda).
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Natalie Harvey
 
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Post » Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:20 pm

However, what people are neglecting to mention is that Shor/Shezarr does often come around as an avatar, like with Pelinal, King Wulfhart, and so on. He may be dead, but a god's death is different from a mortal's and a lesser daedroth's death.
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Lindsay Dunn
 
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Post » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:01 am

However, what people are neglecting to mention is that Shor/Shezarr does often come around as an avatar, like with Pelinal, King Wulfhart, and so on. He may be dead, but a god's death is different from a mortal's and a lesser daedroth's death.


ofc - according to Vivec Gods do not die - they merely sleep perchance to dream ^^ so it may be the body died and yet he lives on until he awakens from his nap in the sleeve ...

edit: now that's a thought ... should Lorkhan awaken from his great sleep would he really need his old body? Well if he is like the Daedric Princes then his body / plane(t) does not really die, it is just that it is not filled with his spirit which would be in whatever place would be appropriate for Lorkhan who does not seem to be precisely a Daedra, nor yet like that 'other gods' - it's as if Lorkhan has a whole different set of rules. Tricky eh?
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Tamara Dost
 
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Post » Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:46 pm

He dreams that he is alive..hence the avatars. I think that's what Quimper means. He's dead..but he moves. Like the Crow sort of.
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Je suis
 
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Post » Sat Apr 09, 2011 5:52 pm

No, Lorkhan is dead. Lorkhan sacrificed himself. A Shezarrine is not Lorkhan.
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Tiffany Holmes
 
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Post » Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:21 am

According to the Monomyth:


This Creator-Trickster-Tester deity is in every Tamrielic mythic tradition. His most popular name is the Aldmeri "Lorkhan," or Doom Drum. He convinced or contrived the Original Spirits to bring about the creation of the Mortal Plane, upsetting the status quo much like his father Padomay had introduced instability into the universe in the Beginning Place. After the world is materialized, Lorkhan is separated from his divine center, sometimes involuntarily, and wanders the creation of the et'Ada.


Wanders the creation of the et'Ada.

I think we need to understand the definition of dead here...because a wandering entity implies a senitient being
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helliehexx
 
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Post » Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:48 pm

The Nerevarine destroyed the enchantments on the heart, letting it return to its owner.

Why didn't it return to Lorkhan BEFORE the Dwemer dug it up and placed the enchantments on it?
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Bonnie Clyde
 
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Post » Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:16 pm

Why didn't it return to Lorkhan BEFORE the Dwemer dug it up and placed the enchantments on it?

The Dwemer trapped it.
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Albert Wesker
 
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Post » Sun Apr 10, 2011 1:20 am

Before that.

The Heart was shot there by Trinimac. It was bound to Red Tower by Convention.
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des lynam
 
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Post » Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:01 pm

Who really knows where Lorkhan's heart went?

That heart is the heart of the world.

I suspect Lorkhan will voluntarily not claim that heart back just to ensure the Aedra don't destroy the world
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CSar L
 
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Post » Sat Apr 09, 2011 5:57 pm

Eating the world would ressurect Lorkhan. Or, conversely, ressurecting Lorkhan would eat the world. Good job, Nerevar.
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Amy Masters
 
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Post » Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:11 pm

Is Talos dead?
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kevin ball
 
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Post » Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:01 pm

There is an effort to remove him as the hub of the Wheel. He's been killed before, once by the HoonDing and again by Vivec. Yet, he's the immortal, "Many Headed" Talos; he can die many times and live, as the heads on a hydra can be severed and regenerate. For Talos to be removed as the hub of the Wheel, the repetition of the Enantiomorph will need to stop.

Yes and no.
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jaideep singh
 
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Post » Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:00 pm

No, Lorkhan is dead. Lorkhan sacrificed himself. A Shezarrine is not Lorkhan.

Lorkhan is not dead....you can't kill a god.
He is tied to mundas ,meaning he is not dead,is heart is hear.
If i remember right alduin/world eater also bound /threw himself to mundas. ( not 100% about this ).
To me it sounds like he is tied to nirn as much as lorkhan maybe,more so than the other aedra.
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Alex [AK]
 
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Post » Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:15 am

There is an effort to remove him as the hub of the Wheel. He's been killed before, once by the HoonDing and again by Vivec. Yet, he's the immortal, "Many Headed" Talos; he can die many times and live, as the heads on a hydra can be severed and regenerate. For Talos to be removed as the hub of the Wheel, the repetition of the Enantiomorph will need to stop.

Yes and no.

This is not the case.

There is no indication that Vivec's and Cyrus's "killing the Emperor" have anything to do with the Aldmerish attempts to remove him from his placement. It would not make sense for that the be the case, because both of those characters have antithetical roles in the mythos to those who want to "kill Man." The final claim in the post about the enantiomorph may be close to to the truth, but stating it that way raises several issues that would need to be addressed.

As always, we should link to the source. http://www.imperial-library.info/content/forum-archives-michael-kirkbride (second passage on the page).
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quinnnn
 
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Post » Sat Apr 09, 2011 5:58 pm

Lorkhan is not dead....you can't kill a god.
He is tied to mundas ,meaning he is not dead,is heart is hear.
If i remember right alduin/world eater also bound /threw himself to mundas. ( not 100% about this ).
To me it sounds like he is tied to nirn as much as lorkhan maybe,more so than the other aedra.

I think it's quite the opposite, Lorkhan is severed from the Mundus, the removal of his heart caused that. Lorkhan is essentially "dead to the world" but still exists somewhere in the Void or Oblivion.

And yes, Akatosh recognized Mundus as a trap but instead of fleeing, threw himself into the Mundus and helped shape and stabilize it. I'd say that would give him a greater influence over Mundus than the other Aedra, but Lorkhan's influence is small, if at all, and not quite comparable to other gods, given the circumstances.
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Rex Help
 
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Post » Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:40 pm

It would not make sense for that the be the case, because both of those characters have antithetical roles in the mythos to those who want to "kill Man.".

I fully agree. What you mistook me for saying is ridiculous.
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Amysaurusrex
 
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