In Oblivion, you could knock down Fruits Cups Chairs and so on.

Some Games of today have Realism, like you could shoot your Name into a Wall and break Wood into pieces.

Now i hear that in Skyrim, you can sabotage the Windmill so that People are forced to do business elsewhere.

What im trying to get at, what if its possible to lure a Dragon to a curtain City and have it Destroy this Giant Towering Structure or put some real damage to it.
[img]http://media1.gameinformer.com/imagefeed/screenshots/TheElderScrollsVSkyrim/TheElderScrollsVSkyrimMedia/Markarth01.jpg[/img]

In other words, how far is Realism in Skyrim gonna be.

Will there be Loading areas when you enter a Building, because in Oblivion there was a Mod where you could walk through walls and it was just an empty space. Shouldent it be a One Open World area if a Building starts burning down or when you open a door to a building you litterly see People in the House.

Don't count on it. Realism only goes so far before it starts hindering gameplay. Yeah, it's a fun idea to think above knocking that tower down the cliff, but then, at what cost? That tower is never realistically coming back. Allowing things to get destroyed in a radiant world like Skyrim will cause all kinds of unintentional problems and the next thing you know, you have a flat world with nothing and no one in it because it was all destroyed.

there HAS to be loading screens. the systems that skyrim will run on simply cannot have enough resources to have every aspect of the game loaded into memory (especially consoles). as for the dragon destroying things while it would be nice i have no idea.

Tell that to Just Cause 2 Well we or the Game could Rebuild itself, poor burning eternity Kvatch. :cryvaultboy:

I think there has to be limits on what we are calling realism. For instance, if we could destroy anything, then by implication we could destroy everything. In which case gameplay could not function, so the Devs need to limit the extent to which we can effect their world. It is not realistic to be able to destroy anything and everything in real life, therefore I don't think it is realistic in game either.

found this in another thread:

* Dragon encounters will not be scripted events. These Dragons may attack towns and cities during its travels, which may cause it to be set ablaze.

Temporary flames, and then possibly blackened ash textures, and itll probably reset after you sleep.

as for structural damage? this would be impressive, but theyd have to rebuild fast for gameplay complications,....and it would have to happen very seldom to not be annoying.

It's not a question of realism. It just can't be done in TES right now. When it will be doable, I'm sure devs can squeeze in systems that ensure that you don't destroy everything without consequences. Pure unconstrained destruction is not realistic either.

Ablaze yes, but could this mean Kvatch Destruction style

Why was Kvatch never rebuild. :ermm:

hmmmm yeah, you would think that with all the wood chopping going on that they would build in a use for this wood like town expansions and/or rebuilding. That may loosely add to a chance for building damage.

Another thing has come into mind, what if you run through a Forest with a Dragon on your tail, you think those Logs and Trees are just gonna sit there once that Beast crash and Burn through them.

A couple specific dragon fights may include building destruction like the last one with Alduin for example. But that would be it. Kind of like how Mehrunes Dagon destroyed part of the temple at the end of Oblivion.

Actually, have you not played GTA IV or Red Ded Redemption? It's called disc streaming, it's when you constantly load and unload data from the disk. Both those games have interior environments with no loading screens.

Shooting your name in a wall is OLD.I once wrote MORROWIND on the ground using laser explosives in Half Life 1.

As for Skyrim,I don't really count much on breaking objects.I'd love to smash fruit,bottles and plates but I don't know if such items can be broken,so deleted from the game...Could cause many bugs,especially with Bethesda physics.(judging from FO) Maybe if every single item had condition and could be picked up and repaired by different means,this could theoretically be possible.Hmm.

But,since now mining and woodcutting is in,I'm wondering how they will be.If you actually hit stuff to get resources,than there must be some kind of environmental damage system.But to be honest,if they went and made a Morrowind Crafting style system where you have the right tools and activate the resource giver,I wouldn't be disappointed at all.

Those games had crap interiors. Nothing much in them except basic filler. TES games have more detail, more objects, and larger interiors like dungeons, castles. Don't even bring up crappy console specific games when comparing TES.

Justa Cause may have a big world with almost no loading, but it doesn't have thousands of items that you can pick up, npcs that have a schedule and thousands of buildings and dungeons that you can enter...

You can't really compare it to a TES game

Just Cause also has a ridiculously low number of NPCs.Even for a game of it's kind,like GTA.I don't see anything special with that game to be honest =/

Trees, foilage, crates, barrels, etc should be destructable with a "restore" time attached to it, slowly making everything normal after a few days or so.

Stones, buildings, ground, etc... should be somewhat interactable. If you smash your big hammer or sword on it, you should see something happening. It could be a very subtle "bruise" on the object/ground, or sparks coming from hitting on metal, or mud coming from hitting ground, etc etc.

All other items should be "interactable", meaning that if you put a force to it, it should move, and possibly get a little "bruised".

Excuse me, but you are very obviously missing the point. Geckoman said that it is impossible to have interiors without loading screens because "you would have to load it all into memory". I corrected him by saying that you don't have to load it all into memory, you can stream it from media. I used those examples to demonstrate the CONCEPT of disc streaming.

Besides, I've seen plenty of mods that have a lot of objects, NPCs, etc. in the same worldspace as the main map, and my PC has no problem streaming them.

And explain to me why the fact that the games were made on consoles in any way invalidates what I said? Sounds to me like you have problems with people even mentioning the existence of console games. You REEK of childish PC elitist.

Unless there are buildings that are pre-built to be destroyed by a scripted dragon scenario, then it's very unlikely. This isn't Red Faction. This is Skyrim, and the environments are and important and pivotal part of the player experience. If everything could be destroyed that easily, not only would it disrupt the game, but there would be no stability nor order.

again, as people have mentioned, each individual object has to be loaded into memory. just looking at it is one thing but anything you can interact with has to be loaded into memory as a separate object. if all you want to do is stream plain video, sure you can look at it but you cannot interact with any of it.

and i was not aware that PC elitists have an aroma. LOL if they do i hope mine isn't too pungent. :rofl: don't get me wrong, consoles are fine but PC is a much more flexible platform.

Give me your PC specs, is it more powerful than an xbox? There you go. Tell you what, Find a 360 copy of Oblivion, go to Bruma, and steal every havok physic'ed item you can find that isn't in a container. Every plate, cup, and book. Walk outside into the center of Bruma, and drop it all at once. After it freezes, realize that what you just did ISN'T including all the items without havok physics, any NPCs that are inside, and all the lights that are indoors. All of which would also have to be rendered as well. Also realize that the 360 detail is in the low to medium settings of what you can do in Vanilla Oblivion on a PC. You will have your answer. This isn't PC elitism, it is fact. Just deal with the fact that an Xbox, with all of it's 512 mb of RAM and gpu 10 mb of eDRAM, combined with a triple core processor just cannot render all of that at once.

In the games mentioned, disc streaming works because there is such a fraction of stuff to load, even with the high detail put into environments. The AI is simplistic at best, often only being able to tell friend from foe, and decide whether to act normal, fight, or run in preset patterns (Oblivion had multiple AI routines and combat styles, sometimes multiple for base enemies like Bandits. There are few to no objects with real physics and most parts of items fade in seconds after being destroyed, or just fall through the ground entirely. In GTA, the streets get emptier (not too much, but noticeably) if you get a wanted level because the game has to compensate for the additional cop cars and probability of lots of gunfire and explosions. Same with RDR, JC2, RF:G, and any other game with disc streaming.

You are correct, it can work in theory, but until we get DVD read speeds at 60x or higher on consoles it won't happen on a game with this much stuff.

The difference being that both GTA and RDR had nowhere near as many interactable Items and objects in those interiors as Elderscrolls games do. The game would be loading and streaming at breakneck speeds to get all the items loaded that the disk would melt lol

To compare those games to Elderscrolls games in this way is just..........well..........silly

Dam the argument is pretty much over, I need to learn to read a thread to the end before commenting lol

Whoa whoa whoa. First you say "Don't bring up a console game in a discussion about TES", and then you start going on about how this couldn't work on a console? Seriously, dude, we're talking about the possibility of not having load screens, if we can accomplish it on a PC then the console versions are irrelevant to the discussion. Don't even bring the console specs up, because I'm NOT TALKING ABOUT THEM here.The entire point of my post was not IT WILL WORK NO MATTER WHAT TRUST IN BETHESDA. I was just addressing a misconception about what is required for an open world-space to exist.

Obviously loading ALL of Bruma's objects in one game-space wouldn't work, but that's not what we are talking about. We are talking about streaming capabilities. If you were to adjust the streaming behavior of the game, you COULD load that much dynamically, and that's the point. I was addressing his misconception about what has to be accomplished for the game to work, and a good streaming system that only loads physics objects within a certain proximity would be able to accomplish this. I'll point you back to where I said "I used those examples to demonstrate the CONCEPT of disc streaming."

I think only pre-determined buildings like windmills and such can be destoryed in a very mechanical way. I don't see them putting much more into it. Plus, a game of this size and detail could not handle that very well at all.