Just because the game is fine for you doesn't mean it is for everyone else. Many people have clearly expressed their opinion that destruction is broken, so you speaking for "everyone else" and claiming that the game is fine for them too just shows how ignorant and self-righteous you are. Clearly everyone either agrees with you, or should change the difficulty. Those are the only scenarios.

It's not that destruction is unplayable, just that it's completely outclassed by a melee character. Abuse smithing and alchemy and you can create absurdly high powered weapons. Meanwhile the destruction using mage is stuck using spells that don't improve with skill (unlike attacks) and can't game the system like the melee smith with legendary crafted weapons at level 12.

Meanwhile the warrior not only does more damage but absorbs more damage from armor (wards and defense boosting spells can't compete with armor in the same way destruction doesn't compare with melee weapons) and has more life.



Not nearly to the degree you could in Morrowind, though, because not only has the cost of destruction spells been increased but items no longer naturally regenerate. You are going to burn through a massive amount of soul gems if you rely upon enchanted items to deal damage in Skyrim.

I'm not trying to argue here, I just want to state my personal opinion.
While I sympathize with both sides, I still feel that using destruction and other schools of magic to fight is fine. I'm not disappointed that it can't beat a warrior alone with just destruction.

Exactly. The name "Destruction" is a misdemeanor. It is like paint ball, when it should be closer to a cannon (or whatever that one post said). Except that shooting a cannon or a paintball gun is actually fun.

Instead of destruction, it should be called, "Long-Range Enchanted Fists of Slapping."

I called it in the last thread. His whole point this whole time has been based on words he put into the mouths of others. Never once did anybody say anything about standing still and tanking an enemy or mob with a pure, unarmored mage. We've made our points ad nauseum, since the game released and people got a destruction maxed and played on a high difficulty, at a high level. He conveniently doesn't acknowledge our actual posts and inserts his own version of what has really been typed.

Hey, I agree. I don't think it makes any sense to rely entirely on Destruction. Thing is, that's not what is happening.

Oh, and I like how, according to Qiox, breaking sight and dropping into sneak is going to amazingly solve the problem. Like they won't be looking for you... <_<

No one else is either. You've only been reading Qiox's generalizations and not other peoples' arguments. No one is using just destruction.

And you create high costs spells to be effective? Where does one get all of that mana to cast with, I wonder... def not by enchanting and chugging potions or through restoration.

Or this character with conjuration can take bow over destruction, and considerably increase damage and efficiency - without having to exploit alchmy/enchanting.

i started with destruction but thanks to being on a pc switched to 1/handed and bows still have illusion, alteration, restoration, and conjuration just dropped destruction its weak i could add the mods for it but having fun with the build i have now so maybe i will when i start over ill do it. conjuration and a bound bow are great together the hardest part about it is my two Dremora Lords kill Mammoths befor i can hit them with my bow to soul trap them

Of course they are. Why is my desctruction mage my highest level character out of the 6 that I have started? Got bored on the sword board and variants. Got bored on the dagger backstabber and variants.

There's 1 that makes the game something less than a face roll on master. And no, I don't have destruction spells at 0 cost. No I don't use skill potions for enchanting or any other skills. And that's what it takes to find a challenge. And people come here and want to kill that possibility instead of just turning down the difficulty for themselves? No freaking way!

Shield Bashing out damages destruction in dps yes? and it can stun lock :laugh:

There's two really dumb things about magic in skyrim right now.

1. Never put a single level up into magicka and grind crafting for zero cost cast. In which case, a seasoned warrior would make a better mage in the long run with more hp.

2. All the school level perks are useless with enchantment, and any perks that improve magicka in general.

Destruction isn't the only one with damage effectiveness issues, restoration spells against the undead does chip damage to leveled undead and get the lovely message that they're all too high level to be effected by your spell even after you've maxed restoration. Same for illusion. :laugh:

Well, Atleast Now i understand. You want a true hardcoe challenge so you went destro.

I guess I can understand that. You certainly made the right choice hehe.

What does that have to do with anything? You said in a vanilla OB and Morrowind that destruction was lackluster. Spell creation made all magic, including and specifically destruction powerful. OPed if you wanted to exploit it. That's all I said. I should have typed more than just "spell creation" but I thought you would have known what I meant.

Do a stealth mage. Get some perk points in sneak. Use detect life to tell where enemies are in the next room and figure out where you can safely sneak to. Frenzy mobs before they've seen you and then use summons to mop up those that are left standing. Most enemies won't have even seen you before they die. Calm anyone that happens to get close and either hide again or dagger sneak attack them while they're calmed.

There will be some battles (mostly boss battles) where you cannot sneak and will have to fight stuff head on. In this case, definitely use summons, (ideally one or even two dremora lords). If the boss is still attacking you, this is when alteration magic is your best friend; throw up ebonyflesh and/or dragonhide and damage being done to you will significantly lessen such that restoration spells or potions will keep you alive while you and your summon kill the enemy. Meanwhile, a paralyze might work even on a boss.

So you're saying destruction should be kept underpowered and gimped because you get a kick out of playing it? If anything that's ruining the experiences of others for your own amusemant. Clearly people wouldn't be here complaining if they thought it was balanced. You're defending it simply because you like the challenge of being underpowered. That doesn't change the fact that it is still underpowered for everyone else wanting a balanced skill.

The people who reply like this have no concept of what the problem is. Do you want to actually kill anything with your one-handed or two-handed weapon? Too bad, because you need to level up pickpocketing and your speechcraft before you are allowed to kill anything.

Uhhh... that's not a solution to low Destruction damage. In fact, you didn't even mention it once.



Thanks. I didn't even want to touch that one cause anything with this guy is like smashing my head against a brick wall. :banghead:

And after I make a post with 20+ quotes from people doing exactly what I describe, you will post your apology for this baseless accusation?

Take your blinders off.

Sounds like Qiox actually wants the other play styles gimped. If that was your intention all along, why didnt you just say it?


And after I quote 150 posts that totally confound any statement you've said, you'll stop trolling?

Context man, all about the context.

My point, the only way that destruction is invalid is if you ignore all the tools available to you. Skyrim is no different than oblivion and morrowind in the fact that you just can't cast destruction and expect to be as powerful as other classes, it takes other aspects as well. Morrowind took a lot more effort in creating powerful sustainable spells.

:foodndrink:

You may find such quotes, but not from anyone that has presented a well thought out post on why Destruction damage is too low. Which are the ones that count.

I wouldn't listen to those one dimensional players as quickly as I don't listen to anything you have to say.



I'm curious, by ignore other tools available do you mean trivialize casting costs? So far all the well put together arguments I have read do make use of other schools.

Still don't have a point. there were so many more tools available to you in previous games that could make Destruction be your only skill if you wanted it to be, much less just a primary like in Skyrim. None of which has to do with how you have to spam it at high levels, unlike its damage dealing skill counterparts in Skyrim. Your original it was how lackluster an unmodded OB or Morrowind was. With spell creation, a tool that was not another skill, compensated. That's all I said. In Ob enchant was not a skill, unlike in Morrowind. There was no crafting obviously in any ES. So most of the tools you talk about have no correlation to the actual skills that are present in Skyrim now.


Our argument has never been about survival with other skills, its about how Destruction on Master (and even expert to a degree) doesn't scale compared to the others. The only way to raise it is with Alchemy which isn't even technically a magic skill anymore. So whether we actually stood there, like Qiox makes up, or we kite, has nothing to do with the actual damage of the skill and modifying it.

Different people have different play styles, but even off the shelf destruction spells were more powerful in Morrowind than Skyrim for me. And if you're going to use "all the tools available to you" Morrowind's spell creation blows the pants off Skyrim's magic. I'm not certain what you mean by "sustainable spells," though.

What tools do you think Skyrim has that makes destruction as effective as melee combat?