The it's again. You need to take conjuration. You can't just go with destruction, alteration, restoration and maybe enchanting. You have to use pets. No fighter style player needs a pet to get along. And belive me, a fighter does just fine with armor and weapon skills only. The is no need to get into smithing. Only two skills and no pets necessary. See the problem?

And btw. it's not about ballance mage<->fighter it's about playstyle. I am forced into using pet's. I don't even wan't to rely on only one skill. Hell I use a whole bunch of skills. Destruction, Alteration, Restauration, Enchanting and Sneaking, but that is not enough. I have to use conjuration or illusion to be effective in late game (or a weapon).

Did you read anything? How is a dps skill being not functional a good balance? What if I do not want to use conjuration? Am I really being forced to? This whole argument, while attempting to sound reasonable, is just bringing up the same point I have been trying to fight against. That pure mages should not be able to dps personally. Why as a mage do I need to invest into conjuration to make destruction worth while? Oh wait I forgot, if I invest in conjuration destruction is NOT worth while and if I do not invest in conjuration Destruction is NOT worthwhile. Ugh.

Edit: also if melee is strong because of smithing and enchant, why can destruction not be strong with smithing and enchant? Why can mages not take advantage of that?

Personally I think Destrction should be even stronger then melee and archery. Neither of those take MANA; neither of those require you to give up good armor for mana regen clothing; neither warrior or stealth require you to give up hitpoints and stamina for MANA. Mages are suppose to have a challenge early, but become a high risk high reward later on. They are GLASS CANNONS. As in they kill fast; but die fast.

Problem is, they just die fast

The only 2 good things about destruction in Skyrim:
- it looks better than in any previous TES game
- you get to stunlock an enemy .... forever if you got enough magicka / magicka discount.

And the 2nd good thing is actually a huge issue. Looks like that stagger perk looked so imbalanced to the designers that the damage didn't matter anymore. I would like to remove that perk but raise the damage in all the skills.

With those two schools of magic we are allowed to summon stuff and defend ourselves this is true. But they dont increase our magic power, while enchanting/ alchemy/ smithing can increase a melees attack output. We should at least have the option to have enchantments to boost magic power, like there are smith upgrades to improve weapons.


Exactly like melee characters are able to do now. What is your opinion on that subject? Do you think that should be fixed or should it stay in the game?


Insulting other forum members who have a different opinion.... right.


Again, the problem is not that all the schools are not powerful enough, is that we don’t have the options to enchant our gear with magic power instead of mana regen. Not only will it resolve all these problems, but a mage will have to choose if he wants to concentrate on damage (for damage dealing mages) or mana regen (for utility mages). The elder scrolls has always been about choice, and since they removed spellmaking, the least they can do is add an option like this for mages.

Haha, thank you for all the people who have posted on this that are keeping their patience better than me. I am getting really frustrated with people who seem to think the way I want to play the game is "wrong" and that I should just learn to play it like they do.

Elder Scroll is about choice, and one of those choices is destruction magic, a choice that I particularly like. I just want to be able to use it the way it is supposed to work.

You do less damage compared to melee as destro, but at least you are more squishy and can't sustain the dps because of mana issues.

You can use enchanting as destruction as well.

You forget that you can add +% skill damage on your armor.
As such, enchanting your gloves to give +35% destruction damage, is not bad.

You are just not looking at the broader picture.
Destruction is totally fine as it is, with damage. Any higher and it would be too powerful.
Mages forget that they too can enchant their gear.
Also dont forget that you have range on your attacks.
Any attack that can be used both in melee and ranged, SHOULD be weaker then a pure melee attack.

Every mage complaining about destruction being weak is just not doing it right.
Most mages I hear of, need to play on Master difficulty or the game is too easy.

This game does not have a class called: Fire mage, or Destruction mage. If you want that, there are other games out there that suits you better. Stop sobbing like children.
You dont like your overall damage output, then skill up conjuration, get enchanting and some other schools together with destruction and you are fine.
you dont like confuration, then thats your problem, not bethesdas. They need to make balance.
if you increase destruction damage, how would that affect confuration+destruction? It would be too powerful.

If you want to play the game using just one sword, and leaving your off hand empty, not even using spells with it, thats your decision.
But thats how you currently are playing the game.
Or, stick a one handed sword then into your right hand and cast destruction with your left. Damage problem solved.

Its also about balance, and your arguments are extremly flawed and powerhungry.

It would only work if you was not allowed to choose the other schools of magic.
BUT....Elder Scrolls is about choices, not limitations, and as such, its your choice to limit your self or to expand your skills.
You sir, choose to limit your self in a world of choices. Its your problem, not the games.

Destruction is fine. Final.

You didn't even read everything or you don't want understand the problem. It's not that we only want to rely on destruction, it's that we have to use pets. I may use destruction, alteration, resoration and enchanting and will still have a ridiculously hard time at lvl 35+.
Great that you are in possession of the one and only truth.

I really dont believe that you have to use pets to be honest, its your choice.

Im playing a dural wield orc. And yes I hit hard, but I cant block. I refuse to bring with me companions.
And although I do more damage then destruction WHEN I can reach my target. The overall damage from destruction is higher due to your range.

So how are you guys doing with the frost spells then?
I know for me, frost spells is the worst of the lot due to slowing me down.

Are you using it?

I can totally understand that you dont want conjuration. I dont either when I will go back to my mage, but i feel that its fine anyway.
Add in dragon shouts to the mix and you are very good to go.
You have huge kiting potential, as you have ranged, and shouts to increase your distance, or knock back enemies, to further increase distance.
Add in some nifty frost spells.

Again, you will NOT, should not ever, do the same or near the damage a melee class does, cause they need to stand toe on toe with the enemies AND connect their blows, to do this damage.
Do you know how often you miss a powerattack as melee,?

I suggest you stop playing your mages for a while, play a melee class to similar level, then come back here and tell us how bad destruction is.

Math wise, destruction deals less damage at high level that 1H or 2H

But I also understand the reasoning behind those who say that a mage is more than a guy shooting destruction spells in the same way a warrior needs to invest in more skills than in using one weapon.

I don't understand how people can say Mages are underpowered! I have a level 30 melee class and a level 10 mage and I would say the mage can dish out more damage.

Dual firebolts with the dual casting perk and impact is beast I destroyed the 1st dragon in less than a minute without it touching me. Then I have sparks, conjurations, healing magic... the list goes on! I dread to think how powerful I will be in the next 10 levels.. its ridicolous and I love it

I almost fell off my chair. So you are saying we MUST use a melee weapon to resolve our magic damage problem? That we must play this play style because we can’t just focus on using magic to debuff/ damage enemies?


So after saying we must use the sword in one hand, magic in another hand play style, you are now talking about the elder scrolls being about choices and limitations? We should not have to use a weapon if we only want to use magic. and since our magic damage at high levels does not even leave a scratch, we are almost forced to use weapons/ bows. And when we come on the forums wanting the choice to increase our magic power output, you keep saying we are wrong and....


.... insulting us in your arguments? Well I am sorry that we have a diffrent opinion to you, but that gives you no right to say that we are wrong, and you are right.


Oh well if you say so...... (end of sarcasm)

Why not? While a meele may go almost solely into health I have to put almost everything into magicka. I don't have any armor as well. If I get hit by an arrow it's my death even with protection spells up quite often. So it would be nice if it would be the same for my enemies to compensate for that.
And if you would ever have tried playing a mage, you would know that it is not too easy to hit your foes as well especialy at higher distances.

Anyway, you guys are on a crusade to buff Destruction regardless of how that would balance players that do use conjuration together with it or not.

You forget the most simple answer there is, that I have mentioned earlier: Range.
You have both ranged and melee attacks, in the same tree.

That alone is enough to nerf the damage.
Any game out there, ALL the games, have melee do more damage then magic due to the simple reason that magic have ranged and other tricks to be utlized.

If my melee character can be frozen in place or highly slowed from enemies using frost spells, then you can as well, as destruction.

Just cause you cant one shoot enemies is no reason to cry.

Instead, be GLAD the game is hard, that you need to run, to kite.
How fun is it if all you needed to do, was shoot one spell and clear out an entire room.
Cause thats what you want. Nothing less.

You utterly forget that as melee I need to get toe to toe with the enemy and they will hit me.
You forget that I need to chase mages that slows me down using frost spells. yeah I have shouts to my advantage but I can be burned down extremly fast unless I apply some serious tactics.

Destruction is fine. And yes, my answer is final. You are just so blind its not even fun.
And I say again: Range.

If you still dont like it, definately dont want to use conjuration.
Then stop playing a mage and roll an archer or melee class, and you are good to go.
Stop complaining about not waiting to use the choices that WOULD make you viable, but you dont want to, due to RP reasons.

I dont complain about Enchanting?
I refuse to use enchanting with my orc cause I cant see how he possibly could learn it.
Do I complain about it? No I dont. Cause its my choice.
If you dont want to raise undeads or summon astros, thats your problem. Not the games or Bethesdas.
When will you understand that?

Wow, this Wagabond guy is clueless.

Just replied to this post at random as several people are making this point. 30 is pretty much the 'peak' for destro. Enjoy it while it lasts. It's all downhill once you have master spells. Destro does not scale from that point on, enemies and just about everything else does. It is broken it needs to scale really.

Are you seriously whining about balance in a SINGLE PLAYER GAME? Can't handle it? Turn down the difficulty.
This game is about variety and having fun, not being the most op hero on the planet. If you want to win so much, I'm sure you can find your way to the console cheats yourself. Or you can wait for a mod that changes it (it actually won't differ much from cheating, so what are you waiting for?).
Saying this as a high level 1 handed/destro/sneak player, which isn't exactly the most powerful build, but it's FUN - and that's what matters.

No Im not.
Its just that you dont want to use the choices presented to you, and is complaining due to it.
If you go full destruction and complain about your damage and survival. Thats your problem, cause thats your choice.

If you go full out melee character without smithing, you will have troubles until you find a heavy magic weapon, and even then its not as good.

Black smithing is not just extra damage, its also extra protection as we increase our armor.
Smithing for warriors, is like confuration for Mages.
You dont need to take it, but it makes your life a lot more easy.

Why would you say that im clueless when you are the ones limiting your choices and complaining that due to your limitations that is self inflicted, you have a hard time.
I have YET to encounter a mage in Skyrim, among the enemies, that is NOT using conjuratoin.
Every mage I meet, use conjuration together with destruction.
It just appears thats how mages perform in Skyrim.
Maybe you should understand that?
Or are you clue less?

What do you mean by high level?

Because at some point, you will find that destruction becomes nearly useless to use and you will decide to use something else.

That's jsut how it is right now. Get to 50, then notice how the game works, then come back. Until then, your opinion on the way destruction works at level 50 is useless.

Exactly. And thats why I am a little engaged here since I cant for the world understand what the problem is with these people.

And as per above poster saying that its downhill after 30.

So I assume then you have a fully enchanted armor that gives your destruction spells around +75% damage and costs around 50% less to cast?
Ohh, you dont. Well then level your enchanting up cause you CAN make these enchants you know.
Just like melee classes uses enchants, so can mage classes to as well.

if you are a "veteran TES player" you should be used to the fact that spells scale by mana cost not by damage, the only thing you can complain about is that you cant craft your personal spells, wich I can relate to, but honestly, the perk + dual cast system is awesome enough, I would love to get spellcrafting back, but it should be tuned down, cuz it was pretty exploitable.

the only thing I can complain about is the simultaneous cast perks are either bad or weak in many spell's case, for exemple runes are good with it (mana cost bad tho) but nukes are not unless you are using downgraded spells, in alteration getting increased duration on ebonflesh is nice, but honestly it should give bonus armor, since at the later levels the armor is too weak.

all in all dual cast needs a fix, the damage/effect multiplier needs to be bigger and mana cost lower, but destruction is just fine otherwise.

1) As you play a dual wield orc i am sure you aren't qualified to participate in this discussion.
2) If it's about range, why do archers do loads more of damage then.
3) If it's about ballance when using destruction in conjunction with conjuration what's about using it whith other damage dealing skills? They don't even need their mana for anything but calling their pets.
4) It's not about that we wan't oneshotting everything but it would be nice if we need less then 30 casts and 10 potions for an enemy at level 35+
5) As stated in 1) you don't even know what you are talking about as you don't had the experience, yet.

Yeah sadly I have too. Actually I am enjoying the 'feel' of stealth archer much better. The interface does not really help the mage who must juggle summons, damage, buffs, heals etc. It feels clunky and somewhat un satisfying (not to mention all the kiting and running away). With stealth it's a much smoother experience.