Because so long as the Heart of Lorkhan is "imprisoned", those who used it will continue to come back. As tempting as it was to become a God, I ultimately decided to destroy the Heart in order to break the cycle. If I hadn't, then Dagoth Ur would inevitably return and nothing would have truly changed.

If Bethesda expects me to have gotten that far into Vivec's sermons, they're on crack. Seriously, I couldn't read that stuff and take it seriously.

And this particular section is rather questionable as well, because since when was Neverar still alive when Baar Dau came around? He died around the time the Tribunal first became gods. How the hell is he supposed to have asked Vivec anything at the time spoken of in this sermon?

And if Vivec knew the entire time that Morrowind would one day be utterly destroyed by the big bleeping rock that his power was keeping at bay, why did he neglect to mention that to the Nerevarine as he sent him into Red Mountain to destroy the Heart of Lorkhan? Did Bethesda not want to give the player any more reason to want to side with Dagoth Ur? That would make some sense, but still.

Does this mean the whole of morrowind is gone?, or is it just Vvardenfell?

There is also the fact that Nerevearine was supposed to be the instrument of Azura's revenge. That itself was also a hint that Nerevearine's actions would doom Morrowind (Red Year is the most prominent consequence, but already in OB you could see how your actions started destroying Dunmer Culture).



One wonders if Vivec would care. After all, the moment they stop loving him is when it kills them.
One wonders if resisting Azura further would just lead to an even worse fate for the Dunmer. Once she gets her vengeance, she may calm down and finally forgive them.

All in all, Nerevearine doesn't need to know. He is nothing more than a tool in hands of god...to Nine Divines as Dragonborn that would stop Dagoth Ur from invading rest of Tamriel, to Azura as an instrument of revenge against Dagoth, the Tribunal and the Dunmer people, all of whom betrayed her. Best case scenario is that Nerevearine dies oblivious and causes them no trouble.


Vvardanfel suffered the most, but the disaster also hit parts of the mainland. The Argonians took care of the surviving parts tough.

I'm not fully convinced that Azura was taking vengeance so much as she was correcting a problem. Given the murkiness surrounding the events at Red Mountain, for all we know, she wasn't actually responsible for the Chimer becoming the Dunmer, the Tribunal were.

Let's face it, we can't trust anything that isn't supported/covered by the games themselves.

Azura bears no grudge against the Dunmer people, just the Tribunes. The Red Year was a result of Vivec's selfishness, nothing more.

Azura wants the Dunmer to love her and need her, and she hated the Tribunal for leading them from Daedra worship. But she gains nothing by killing the people off; in fact, she gave her disciples visions of the landfall and eruption so they could save themselves and as many others as possible.

And boy oh boy, did they ever build a humongous and badass statue to her.

Apple pies restore 10 health, value=http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1331616-destruction-of-morrowind-the-revenge-of-bethesda/5 septims.

I think they blew up Morrowind's land area as a means to say "all those sort of oddball creatures found there are now dead forever" so they can stick with the more traditional stuff like spriggans, bears and undead. Plus then they can say now that the unique architecture was destroyed and forgotten, and whatever else is convenient. I wont miss the kwama queens or a few of the other more....unusual animal beasts, but the buildings and such, or if they use it as a way to forever remove things like netch leather and other tribal style things, that would be a sad day. Stilt Strider trilling FTW. Eating gigantic eggs from an insectoid like animal that makes hives like ants....eh I wont miss that.

Note to devs: Put this in the notebook. Some day when a game is made in an appropriate timeline for this, put a unique alchemical agent into the game and make some quests around it. that item? Fossilized Kwama Egg, preserved from the eruption of red mountain and unearthed centuries later. make some crazy Dunmer geezer alchemist send you after it with stories about how his great great grampapy used to eat kwama eggs every day, kwama omelets, kwama egg soup, kwama egg quiche' and kwama eggs and Guar bacon.

That makes no sense. Shivering Isles (and, in a way, the Fallout games) made it clear that Bethesda has no problem with weird art design. Cyrodiil and Skyrim are human provinces and as such are more down-to-earth. I guarantee Elsewyr, Black Marsh, and the Summerset Isles will be appropriately weird and otherworldly.

Lore-wise, Black Marsh isn't super-interesting architecture wise, but if the interior jungles, swamps and marshes look anything like Avatar, I will be one happy camper.

Which is better for Morrowind though? Damnation and exile from their homeland or an Immortal and very powerful, however you look at it, Nerevarine continuously stopping Dagoth Ur. Dunmer-style Link and Ganondorf execpt they both just keep on fighting no rebirths lol. With Vivec acting as the Zelda lmao. He/she half fits the part.


Btw Sheogorath sent the stone. But Vivec left it in the air in the hopes that his people would remember to love. Did you notice the Dunmer in Morrowind? Lovely is not something that describes them imo.

They reckon that after the Black Death (plague) in England and Europe that many areas returned to forest within 100 years. So many farmers and villages died that a lot of land had no people to work it anymore so it just returned to nature. So given a max of 200 years as in your question that is more than enough for the vegitation to rebuild back to its original level, the people would probably take far longer to recover than the tree's and quite a bit of the wildlife would recover quicker than people as well I'd guess?

How long would it take plants and wildlife to return to an area covered in incredibly fertile volcanic ash? Not long at all. However that question becomes exceedingly more complicated if the volcano keeps erupting. If it does not though? Much less than 200 years. Wildlife would be back in full stride within 20-50 years if our own world is anything to go by. (Krakatoa, Mt. Saint Helens, etc. etc. look them up) Volcanic eruptions make areas even more fertile unless it just dumps tons of lava everywhere. Which is not really how it works in a 200 year time frame. We also do not know if Red mountain is special in some way because well frankly Nirn is pretty much intrinsically magical. They may not have plate tectonics or hotspots at all!

How long would it take to repopulate Morrowind with Dunmer though is a tough question. Considering how well adapted the Dunmer are to life in volcanic condtions and the like it should not take to long at all. But other factors like outside interference or internal struggles make this almost impossible to determine. However luckily in Skyrim many Dunmer hint that Morrowind is pretty much still inhabited by Dunmer because of the things they mention in dialogue. Who is in control of Morrowind/Vvardenfell may be tricky though. Argonians, Mede Empire, Ashlanders, Tribunal Temple Dunmer, Great Houses, a new system of governement? Who knows? All are possible. It could also be a completely abandoned no mans land. Speculating is fun but none of this can be construed as factual. Even the recovery of the landscape, flora and fauna could be quite faulty.

If anything, they've done the complete opposite of what you've said. If Red Mountain hadn't erupted, then there'd be nothing new to find in Morrowind. The same cities, the same ruins, and the same damn population of Cliff Racers.

Now that the Red Mountain erupted? I like it think of it was a revitalization of the land from years and years of turmoil. Lava makes for good fertilizer, doesn't it? Well I could see (because any future TES game would take place in the future... who knows how many years) Morrowind now being reshaped and molded by the very people who once inhabited.

Though, come to think about it now, I forgot the argonians had allegedly kicked the Dunmer out of pretty much all of their land (in retaliation for slavery).

So, now Bethesda can reform the entire landmass of Morrowind for whatever they desire. New cities, new culture, new prophecy, new ruins. Or maybe things won't change as much as one would think.

This isn't to say it would be as wonderful as Morrowind...

Well, we'll get Skyblivion now the same it was with Morroblivion - it means there won't be Skyrriwind.

man it must have really svcked being on that meteor when it hit the ground

SPLAT BOOM instant evaporization

and yes the dunmer had it coming, and not because of slavery only.

Elaborate. This should be good.

Slavery
Feelings of racial superiority
Hatred for outsiders
Unwillingness to admit defeat
Worshipping false Gods
An entire society based on murder, backstabbing and prophecy

Which ironically later on created the murder of Nerevar by stabbing him in the back and then trying to prevent the Nerevarine prophecies.

Personally I don't feel any of those reasons are good enough, I love the Dunmer but there are plenty of reasons to consider if you really want too.

This is a case of the wrong group being held responsible. The Dunmer did not deserve what happened to them. The whole race is not all of those bad things. it is never that black and white. That is why the Dunmer are greyish.

As to the points...most of those can be applied to White society of the Jim Crow days. I am not touching the false god worship subject though as that is not relevant and will get this topic locked. But I will go over them anyways.

1) Slavery- They fought a bloody civil war between houses Indoril and Redoran against Hlaalu and Dres to abolish slavery. They bled to free members of another race. Even if you play the negative nancy and say it is because of the empire and Hlaalu and Dres just wanted to get on their good side it still pitted the common Dunmer against other Dunmer to free those of another race that wanted to be free, Sound familiar?

2) Feelings of racial superiority- While certainly true for some Dunmer they were bred that way by their society. Sound familiar again? If you notice the Dunmer tend to be a lot nicer if they were raised elsewhere. That society was crumbling at the time of the Red Year judging by the actions of the Dunmer in the interlude between Morrowind and Oblivion. It is also worth mentioning that almost every society is guilty of this as they want to justify their actions against any other nation when it comes to war. This is actually true for slavery as well for most societies. Though race was not the focus. Race is a new idea invented by white people(I am white btw) to justify their treatment of other people and to attempt to reaffirm their own vaunted superiority. Prejudice is nothing new but racism is. Racism is not hating someone of a different race. That is simply prejudice. Racism is something that advantages one group of people over another based on their race, color of their skin etc etc. Yup I went off on a big tangent getting back in line.

3) Hatred for outsiders- When you are hated upon you tend to build up barriers and this trait was not even common to every Dunmer. Not even close. It is too be expected though that outlanders would be looked down upon when entering a groups homeland and causing problems for them. Not everyone is a Saint nor will society as a whole act saintly very often.

4) Unwillingness to admit defeat- This is a bad thing how? They just supposed to roll over and die?

5) Worshipping false Gods- These gods both helped and hurt them. So if you meant they deserved it for trusting in Vivec then well they got what was coming to them I guess. The ministry of truth crashed because they stopped loving Vivec and trusting in him/her. ALMSIVI also had god like powers and actively helped their people a lot. They sound a lot better than some of the other gods tbh. Vivec is for all intents and purposes like a god in any case. He did not even need the Heart of Lorkhan after realizing CHIM imo anyways. Besides what makes them false? Is it worthy of destroying a civilization just because they people they worshipped called themselves a name you did not like. This is hardly deserving of condemnation.

6) An entire society based on murder, backstabbing and prophecy- Yes their ENTIRE society was only based on that...simple falacy. Their politics were based on those as well as their religion to some extent but that hardly means the entire society is constantly murdering and betraying one another while waiting in the Nerevarine to come around...

So maybe the Dunmer-SOCIETY of pre-Nerevarine Morrowind deserved some hard kicks to the nether regions but the Dunmer as a people hardly deserved it in any shape or form. At least in my opinion.

I don't listen to Hip-hop. Okay that was a really out of place not really applicable South Park quote, but i've been waiting to use that for so long that even a tenth of an oppurtunity could not be passed. The thing is, even though you are right and you shouldn't blame an entire race for the actions of a few that doesn't mean you can actually do that. The Argonians could not walk in, kill only those that were directly responsible and then leave again, it would simply be impossible.


True, but then again I never said I agreed with the Argonians it is however a reason to hate them. Whether or not all Dunmer had that feeling is also irrelevant because for the most part many did, and at least those that the Argonians came into contact with most often would have.


That begs the question do the Dunmer hate the outsiders because the outsiders hate them, or do the outsiders hate the Dunmer because the Dunmer hate them? Regardless any country you enter where you are treated as a lesser citizen will not be your most popular country.

Not really, but it can be an annoying trait in people you already hate.

You are looking at it wrong, I'm saying it's motivation for others not that the Dunmer were wrong in their actions. For any race out there, the Tribunal would have been lesser, strange, alien, weak, not natural gods. To worship them is to make them superior to the Hist, Aedra or Malacath. Not something most people outside of Morrowind would like.


I said that wrong, it's not all that their society is based upon. But the principal foundations of their society come from Bhoethiah, Mephala and Azura. If you look at those three then a lot of the traits they have relate to murder and stabbig people in the back, again not something outsiders would look favourably upon.


Like I said at the start of my previous post, I do not agree with the Argonian invasion. I wish it would not have happened, I love the Dunmer people. But there are plenty of reasons for others to want to see them destroyed, some of them are very good too. If you combine all reasons I said earlier, that would give any nation a good enough reason to invade Morrowind. That I personally hope the Dunmer win this war, kick the Argonians out and restore Resdyan is irrelevant in the matter.
Also important to remember here, we are looking at a Casus Beli for the Argonians, not justification. They had it.

Well there is our problem right there. I thought you were going off of the previous posters comment on how the Dunmer had it coming, as if they deserved everything that happened to them from some pseudo-Karmic perspective.

Yeah it is easily understandable(not justified) for the Argonians to invade Morrowind. The Justification went out the window after slavery was abolished and if it was just the Argonian invasion that happened I think it would have possibly even been a good thing for Dunmer society(IF they were not on a genocidal rampage like what was indicated) as a whole to get humbled and realize that they could not treat the other races the way they did.

However the Argonian invasion is the least of what happened to them. I was taking the stance that from a cosmic perspective the Dunmer did not deserve all the things that happened to them. Like CIvil War, then Daedric Invasion, then the Red Year, and finally the Argonian invasion. It was a series of [censored]storms that imo they did not deserve. So yeah [censored] happens and it makes the Lore more interesting but to be so callous as to insinuate the entire society as a whole deserved the hand dealt them is just plain wrong.

Besides tbh the Argonians were in the "wrong" to invade. It was not so much the everyday Argonian that was even wanting the invasion though. It was the An-Xiheel/Hist who wanted to consolidate their power after 'saving' Black Marsh from the Oblivion Crisis. So after taking power they instigated an invasion. It was a simple power play and don't think the Argonians are above that because they are not. They can be good and they can be bad just like everyone else. There seems to be this misconception that Argonians are all nice and perfect or something. In any case if you look at history you will see countless groups doing the same kind of powerplay after taking power so that they can legitimize their power and consolidate it as well. I mean look at what happened in the Novels. There was talk of 'corrupted' argonians being driven from some parts of black marsh because they had contact with other races. Cannot say I really like the An-Xiheel tbh.

The invasion of morrowind had little to do with slavery and pretty much everything to do with dunmer excursions into black marsh and their destruction of Hist trees.

Yeah, well everyone kind of killed Hist trees... The Hist just stood by as the Elhnofey wars raged in the past and got obliterated until there was very little left of their territory. Their ineptness to act was their own downfall. I also disapprove of the way they had knowledge of the Oblivion Crisis and neglected to tell the rest of Tamriel other than just recalling Argonians. They could have informed an Argonian of what was to transpire and sent him off to warn people. But no instead they risked the world being invaded by Mehrunes Dagon to further their own ends. The only good thing the Hist have going for them are imo, recycling the Argonian's souls and helping in their creation, but even that does not have enough information on it to really know how it works.. But what is wrong with the Dreamsleeve that everyone else goes through? Argonians would get recycled just like everyone else would they not? So why do the Hist maintain control of the Argonians Souls like that? Seems nefarious until explained to me.

Besides what evidence do you have that the Dunmer did destroy Hist trees? I recall one book and it mentions Dwemer doing it. Though the Dunmer could easily have tailored it that way to be fair. I am genuinely interested in whether or not there is evidence of them destroying Hist trees or making excursions for such. Also did the Dunmer understand what they were doing? The Argonians could have walked the high road and tried to help the Dunmer in their time of need. (post red year) Then showed them the error of their ways in terms of the Hist and tried to forge a true relationship between both of the two races instead of reinforcing every single negative stereotype the Dunmer had about the "beastfolk". That was what I was hoping for. But nope, the Dunmer got [censored] on again and again.

Lastly how does the actions of those Dunmer that did cut down Hist trees mean that the whole society needed to be punished for it? I can understand taking out those in power but the way it is presented in the Novels the Argonians attempted genocide on the Dunmer wherever they encountered them. Do we know if it was an invasion that just took the main areas of power and trampled the power structure? Or did the Argonians go on a Dunmer genocidal rampage after the Dunmer were too weak to put up a fight? We dunno for sure but the evidence is for the latter.

The simple truth is that neither side was in the right during the whole relationship of Morrowind and Black Marsh. Both sides were in the wrong throughout most of their interactions. The only representations we have though are of how it was during TES 3: Morrowind. In that case it is a representation of Slavers VS Slaves and it is pretty obvious who is in the wrong there. But not every Dunmer was a slaver owner and not every Argonian a slave.

Meh...the whole thing is a mess of bad relations after bad relations.

Regarding the hist tree, this is a rather big thing. I'd would be like somebody walking into the vatican, summoning Jesus and then killing him. You'd bet your ass off that half the world would be willing to go to war for that. The Argonians are not that different from most people.

Of course it's bad decision after bad decision after bad decision, but that's simply how the world works... Politically speaking it's also a lot easier to convince your people it's time to invade an old enemy then it is to help an old enemy and turn them into friends.

I think it would be good to note that Morrowind is already rebuilding itself. As indicated by conversation in between characters (in Windhelm, Dark Brotherhood Sanctuary, and some other places) Vvardenfel and much of Morrowind is already repopulated, if only sparsely.

And the Argonians didn't take all of Morrowind. They only took the immediate south areas, ie, Tear, Narsis, Mournhold etc. Places like Blacklight, Port Telvannis, and possibly even Necrom were likely not invaded, and even if they were, I doubt they were taken.