My point exactly. A poster a bit ago says "It's like upgrading from iron to steel, and being stuck at steel the rest of the game." I take that as "It's okay for me to use one spell the whole game, but you have to buy your weapons. When you do, I am going to rage about it because it's not fair"

The thing that really irks me is that certain spell effects in Destruction become absolutely useless. Personally, I loved the Flames spell. A jet of fire leaving my hands was awesome. It makes no sense why I suddenly can't use that spell effect anymore. What would have been nice was to either have spells scale or allow each individual spell to be improved upon. That way, if someone doesn't like Firebolt but likes Flames they can make Flames the stronger spell...in other words, spellcrafting.

I might be off a little when I say this, but I am going to make an assumption and say- As a one handed player, my melee perks are pretty limited. Blacksmithing is my ONLY way to improve my damage other than potions, right? Last time I checked, destruction perks granted some amazing bonuses, enchanting can boost destruction stats, as well as potions too?

Whining about destruction being underpowered is like a hunter from WoW complaining that their dps is to low when they havent even pulled their pet out...deal with it,
mages have pets END OF STORY !!!!!

Melee:
All but 2 perks in the 1h melee weapon skill tree contribute to damage. Only 1 perk in 2h does not.

Levelling the melee skill itself adds to damage.

+skill enchants on the weapon add to damage.

Having a better weapon, and being able to improve it adds to damage.

Dragon shouts such as elemental fury add to melee damage.

vs

Destruction:
Less than half the perks increase damage, and those that do do not improve all destruction spells, only subsets of them.

Levelling the destruction skill does not add to damage

+skill enchants on gear do not add damage.

Having a better/higher level spell does do more damage, but not anywhere near enough to begin to compare to melee advantages.

No dragon shouts improve your cast spell damage.

+magicka regen is broken. Magicka regen is inherently far slower than stamina regen.

THis is why the scaling is so off. Levelling destro needs to improve destro damage, and magicka regen needs to be fixed.

Anyone complaining about going out of mana as a caster just needs to enchant some better items.

My expert level destruction spells cost THREE mana. 3. The number that comes after two.

I can spam dualcast thunderbolt for like 10 minutes before I even get close to running out of mana.

Melee can as well, that has NOTHING to do with the issues od destruction not scaling. Also, if I want to play a sorcerer and not use pets i should be able to do decent damage, it is a viable way to play since fantasy was around. Playing as a mage who uses destruction is one of the most popular mages in fantasy, no excuse for the one damage skill for mages to be gimped, they dont have much else as they are weak up close. Sorcerers who justd estruction magic have been around since day one, they are gimped in Skyrim.

melee scales, can still use poisons and staffs for magic, and does way more damage.... What you said has ZERO to do with that.I Should not eb forced to use pets as melle are not.

So much for end of story.

No your just not dealing with it and still whining

No your just not dealing with it and still whining

I think the problem most people have is they do not understand the math in this, I will try to shed some light.

My SINGLE one handed daedric war axe upgraded to legendary through smithing (WITHOUT any enchants on my armor to make smithed items stronger) does about 72 damage per hit. With the first tier one handed perk maxed, that damage is doubled to 144. Now because im dual wielding these exact same axes, I attack 35% faster from the dual fury perk, and also my power attacks cause 50% extra damage. I also use the axe mastery perk so that my axes cause the target to bleed for even more damage (The damage isnt stated.) I also have 25% bonus damage to my power attacks, and 25% less stamina use for power attacks. Now, I do not have these enchanted because I feel the Elemental Fury shout is better (It DRAMATICALLY increases attack speed, AS WELL AS power attack speed. But can only be used with non enchanted weapons, to my knowledge, there is no such enchant for destruction users, or archery for that matter.)

To my knowledge, the highest damage destruction spell is Fire Storm, which is 150 points. They also have 50% increased Fire damage from a perk, making this come out to 225 damage. With NO way to make it a power attack, NO way to cast it faster, NO shout to improve its casting speed or damage, NO way to smith it to be more powerful, AND they must be a fire mage to make the most use out of this spell. While I as a warrior can freely choose between the weapon type that i want with no real decrease to effectiveness. So lets look at this from a bullet point style view.

Daedric War Axe - 72 damage
+100% Damage
+75% Power Attack Damage
+35% Faster Attack Speed
+???% Faster Attack Speed (Elemental Fury shout, im guessing ATLEAST 100% faster.)
+25% Less Stamina For Power Attacks
+?? Extra Bleed Damage

Fire Storm - 150 Damage
+150% Damage (Im assuming dual wielding the spell doubles its damage, plus 50% from the perk.)
+??% Less Magicka Cost (I have no idea how much less magicka it costs when destruction is maxed, I do not play a mage.)
+??% Chance To Fear Target (Assuming you're a fire mage, which really limits destruction even more.)

And this doesnt even factor in enchanting my gear with major smithing to create even BETTER daedric war axes and improving them even MORE. I also didnt take into account the fact that I play on master difficulty, basicly nerfing all damage the player does by 40%. From this math alone, I can already tell it svcks to be a pure mage.

-Edited to include bleed damage and fear chance-

Wrong. Blacksmithing is just the beginning. Real fun starts when you combine Blacksmithing with Enchanting. And if you add Alchemy into this...
Well, to put it short, one guy managed to get 3000 armor and 1500 weapon damage for around 60 seconds,
or around 500 damage and 1500 armor on constant.
[..]
At same time, destruction magic always stays at it's 90 (or 180 when dual casted; both numbers are taking perks into account) expert level spells. There's no way
to increase it. and Master spells... they just don't worth it.

Numbers don't lie!

What about aoe stats? lols

I don't know if its an actual spell in game but there is this huge fireball spell that pawns the hell out of me

Magic doesn't need to scale. The fact that you have access to almost infinite mana going pure caster means you can sustain damage much longer than melee classes, providing you more dps for the total duration of a fight. UNLESS you resort to potions, which again apply to both caster and melee classes. Casters also have an amazing ability to heal themselves and kite, given you aren't dense and are dead set on going straight destro.

I love this exchange:

OP: "Hey I played a bit and things seem balanced to me."

Jerks: "No way, it's totally broken and you can't possibly understand. Get some evidence if you want to be taken seriously." (gingerbill)

Me: "Where the heck is your evidence? Put your money where your mouth is. If you have to resort to insults, you are probably wrong."

Anyone complaining about going out of mana as a caster just needs to enchant some better items.

My expert level destruction spells cost THREE mana. 3. The number that comes after two.

I can spam dualcast thunderbolt for like 10 minutes before I even get close to running out of mana.

You probably have to spam it that long before you kill anything at high levels unless you're on easy. Mana isn't an issue, it never was. The problem is the damage output never improving beyond +50% (which costs 6 perk points to get for the entire school).

So, some people find it strange that one skill tree (destruction) doesn't allow you to dominate the whole game.

Melee gets perks that make certain attacks AOE. Try harder.

No, people find it strange that one skill tree is so worthless at level 40+ that almost any build without it would be better.