Not more viable than avoiding Destruction altogether. They should just drop destruction from the game.

Would someone please post a video of a mage being useless with destruction after level 40?

We've also got people claiming every enemy levels with them, so I'm skeptical and there's a lot of liars.

Don't bother math isn't evidence. apparently the glove don't fit so we have to acquit.

exactly

its like i wanna use magic and spam one spell to pawn face like a warrior (who when spam pawning face is actually using at least two trees)

That's a problem with smithing/enchanting/alchemy synergizing too much to the point of being broken.

Now, I'm not saying Destruction is fine, I haven't tried it, but pointing out the other combat skills get ludicrously high damage is not evidence that Destruction is underpowered. It just means something is broken with those other skills.

Now, if someone using one-handed weapons w/ a reasonable level of buffs (meaning: don't go and min-max the system to exploit a broken mechanic) is still able to kill targets much faster than a Destruction Mage, then that is better evidence.

That said, one argument that is valid is that just as warriors depend on more than just their 1 offensive skill to succeed, the same should be true of Mages... and it is a fact that a pure mage who invests in multiple schools will have a lot more options available than a warrior (beyond simply blasting with destruction spells).

Itkovian

Yeah im currently playing a level 28ish heavy armor conj/destuction character and im considering restarting after reading all these threads about destro svcking after level 50 or so.Anyone willing to fraps some gameplay of there 50+ mage?

Stop obfuscating the issue. People want the Mage damage tree to do good damage. It is as simple as that.

So - how many people want to HAVE to take 4 perks in enchant and meanwhile not roleplay but min/max smithing/enchant. Seems rather silly to make all builds include this - very min/max geared instead of playing the game as a game.

I'm curious about the people who simply PLAY their warrior or thief without crafting/enchanting uber equipment - how do they fare after 40+ level?

J

On Adept lvl or lower, mages are really fun to play any way you want to play them. Their damage stays decent and while it takes us longer to kill, you can CC enough so that you never really have to worry. Plus since every other magic line scales, you can use these to over come the inherent weakness of Destruction.

On Master level, destruction is a joke. You can still use the same strategy as before, but you are going to be spending lots of time killing foes. This is almost an impossible task unless you do the BS/Alch/Ench exploit to give you 100% mana cost decrease in all your schools, otherwise you will get 5 dualcasts with 300 mana using fire bolt which will not kill one Restless Drueger(weak to fire) at level 10. Level 50, you will not do 20% of their health before running out of mana. Also without the BS skills, you will get 1-2 shotted by any mob. Three skill points into BS will go a lot farther then wasting them in Alteration for mage armor.

Usually strategy for a Destro mage is to level those skills early, then level your destruction skills which also level very slowly.

*I am convinced destruction is bugged. Another example is to play the beginning as a pure archer, melee, or destruction. One-hand and Archer will both gain enough skills points to level before this is over. Destruction will only gain 2-3 (depends on mana pots) skill points in the same time. Not even 3rd of a level. Plus damage increases with both those skills as they skillup and destruction does not. Obviously when 1 skill does not work like any other skill in the game, its bugged.

I tested the leveling some more after getting the mage stone 30% increase. Killing 20 enemies with each skill. Destruction was so far behind it wasn't funny. At level 15: One-hand is level 44. Archery is level 38 (Slow rate of fire). Destruction is level 28. This is including the fact that I am an Elf and got +5 in destruction at the beginning. Even skills that I rarely use are hitting 30's, like lock pick and pickpocket. Alchemy is my highest skill due to making all those mana pots to keep me blasting away.

Side note: I am a lvl 54 Destro Mage on Master.

Warrior-type damage comes from one tree.
Archer-type damage comes from one tree.

This. Blam!

I would like to see a video of a 40+ mage showing off just how difficult things are...

Anyone got that kinda proof?

Notice how it is all the level 35 to 40+ mages that have a problem with destruction. Also notice how it is all the low level mages and thieves/warriors trying to say it is fine.

Who do you think knows what they are talking about?

if you put the difficulty up you can really see how unbalanced it is, in that a pure mage stands almost no chance on master because you just dont do enough damage, and you dont have enough magicka or magicka regeneration to be able to cast more than 6-10 damage spells and a single conjuration before running out of mana

some also seem to be unaware of the fact that the caster NPCs do way more damage with the same spells than you are capable of especially on the higher difficulties

I agree that the issue isn't how powerful warriors are. It's really balance against the content that counts. My mage isn't high enough level to judge for myself, but it certainly sounds as though destruction has issues at high levels. Mana needs to be scarce enough to motivate us to use good tactics (maintain awareness of enemy resistances, etc.), but not so scarce that you avoid using all but your cheapest abilities or so that you feel forced to use companions because your character can't go the distance alone. Your spells should be tuned to hit the sweet spot where you can feel both powerful and challenged.

For me a big part of the destruction problem lies in the loss of castable debuffs. Different delivery methods offer some tactical challenge but I favor combining spells, whether at the spellmaker or on the fly. For one thing, we'd be less perk-starved. One handed has a many perks as destruction, but so far as I know the game doesn't include mobs with high levels of resistance to sword or mace damage so that melee need to perk multiple weapons. A mage who doesn't perk multiple elements is going to encounter far greater problems.

Also mages are the most physically vulnerable, have the highest expenses, and are the most resource-dependent archetype. When we first encounter an enemy it takes a bit of time to mount our defenses (cast our armor, etc.) I think we should be rewarded for overcoming those negatives with the ability to deal enough damage that we feel good about the strength of our characters. I know that's a very subjective measure, but I think that ultimately it's the one that counts.

dont know about archery

..but warriors are using either block or the heavy armour tree to be able to take the damage from mobs to be able to deal the damage he does at close combat...

outside the box plz

double post

Duh! And mages are using either an armor skill or alteration for defense. Wanting to use destruction to deal damage has nothing to do with using other skills for support purposes.

So many strawmen in these discussions. This is not an issue of balance between classes, of which there are none in Skyrim anyway, but about the viability of a specific skill.

All in all, the game has four skills available as direct means to make things dead: One-handed, two-handed, archery, and destruction. These can be mixed and matched freely with the supporting skills, and no one has ever suggested to use only one skill alone for the entire game.

Now, three of those four skills have the capactiy to deliver astounding amounts of damage even at high levels. One of them does laughable damage. Three do their job well, one barely at all. Guess which one is Destruction.

Perhaps the issue debated here is now clear to anyone.

You're forgetting the Master level spells. They'll own basically anything if you have the mana.

No YOU don't seem to get it. What i don't understand is that nothing gets through the thick skulls around here.

NO SHIZ you need to use other skills/perks to succeed in ANY build in this game. As I stated in another post your warrior might take 1 hander/ shield/ h. armor as his focus while MY caster might take destruction/ restoration and alteration. NO ONE is JUST using the destruction tree and expecting to only pwn face with "nothing else"!!! How many times does this have to be said? What IS being said and what you keep glossing over is that there is a LEVELING/SCALING issue with DESTRUCTION magic and destruction only after you get your best spells. When that happens, your progression and effectiveness wanes while the ENEMY's doesn't!

Why should anyone be forced to have to take conjuration in order to supplement ineffective damage from the "destruction" tree at high levels? Are you forced as a warrior to take a bow when it goes against the concept that you had for your character because 1 handed weponry doesn't scale? Would you like having to boost your so called primary means of damage with conjuration because your weapon wasn't getting the job done?

The only way you meatheads will understand is to have the issue thrust on your melee skills. Let's see how you feel when your damage stops scaling and you never find a better "weapon" past level 40 even though you might be level 60 fight lvl 60 enemies...

This is good feedback.

This is the kind of thing that warrants a patch and attention.

this is going around is circles bye now

So you're what, level 10? Your opinion on an issue that affects the 40-80 level range is relevant how?

I am getting mixed feedback here. 8 people jump up and say they can't kill anything at high levels with destruction spells. Then 2 people say destruction is fine, but only on adept or lower, its the higher difficulty which makes the enemies stronger which thus makes the magic weaker. Then you have people like chronobomb who actually go into the game and test and find that their destruction skill actually raises slower than their other skills even with the same usage. Only one of those things is actually a problem.


One other thing here, what is the obsession with levels? This isn't Diablo 3, its not meant to be a loot casino. TBH the combat and "leveling" mechanics in TES and Bethesda games like Fallout have never really been that robust or "balanced." Nor have many other recent products like Bioware's Dragon Age games or even their Mass Effect games. If you play this game looking for the kind of polish and attention to combat systems that say Blizzard prioritizes in Diablo or WOW, you aren't going to find it. Its just not what these guys do. (and yes I listed only AAA mass market RPG titles for a reason. Skyrim will like have sold more than $ 400 million worth of dics before the end of next week. Morrowind was not, but Skyrim certainly is mainstream.)


Whether that warrants a vastly greater attention to the combat and character building aspects of this series is certainly worthy of discussion, but [censored]ing and crying about destruction magic spells when you are level 45+ in a game that isn't built around those things is not going to get you anywhere.