Destruction useless ? : V - Skyrim

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:39 am

No, I think you're the one making the mistake. The fact that you even need to stun-lock the enemy demonstrates that it is weak.

A Sword & Board fighter gets constant damage upgrades throughout the game from One-Handed Perks, Sword Perks, better material weapons, improved quality weapons and Enchanting (which includes adding elemental damage to weapons and a straight percentage increase to skills). And i'm not even taking crafting exploits into account. A mage gets exactly 50% increased damage to each element from all Perks and has to chug potions to get beyond that. Further, it doesn't cost anything to go into combat with a Sword & Board unless you choose to use a Power Attack, while every single thing a mage does costs Magicka from a limited pool that has a horribly slow in-combat recharge rate.

Should a Destruction Mage be able to one-hit Dragon Priests? No. But they shouldn't have to stun-lock and whittle away at something a physical damage character can take down in a few seconds, either.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:45 pm

Not at all. Once again, depends how high your level is and how you use it.

Cheers

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:43 am

I play a mage on adept, first and only character so far and I love it a whole lot. I'm level 55 now, and have loved playing a mage ever since level 1 and still love it at level 55. I'm actually afraid to play a melee character because of how easy and boring it will be. Playing a mage is challenging and rewarding, but is not too difficult or a major headache if you play it smart. It's a play style that rewards you for using tactics and strategy, thinking things through, and being prepared.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:21 pm

No, I think you're the one making the mistake. The fact that you even need to stun-lock the enemy demonstrates that it is weak.

A Sword & Board fighter gets constant damage upgrades throughout the game from One-Handed Perks, Sword Perks, better material weapons, improved quality weapons and Enchanting (which includes adding elemental damage to weapons and a straight percentage increase to skills). And i'm not even taking crafting exploits into account. A mage gets exactly 50% increased damage to each element from all Perks and has to chug potions to get beyond that. Further, it doesn't cost anything to go into combat with a Sword & Board unless you choose to use a Power Attack, while every single thing a mage does costs Magicka from a limited pool that has a horribly slow in-combat recharge rate.

Should a Destruction Mage be able to one-hit Dragon Priests? No. But they shouldn't have to stun-lock and whittle away at something a physical damage character can take down in a few seconds, either.

I'm not arguing that damage isn't weak.

But stun-lock is a part of what destruction is. We can't complain about destruction and ignore stun-lock.

And I'm a fan of neither zero scaling damage nor stun-lock. I think stun lock has no place and I wholly agree that damage and utility should scale without relying on such broken game mechanic.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:39 am

I don't get why people complain about stunlock being broken when every power attack with a melee weapon does the same thing...

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:15 pm

I don't get why people complain about stunlock being broken when every power attack with a melee weapon does the same thing...

Because it is done at range on every single enemy types with 100% chance/duration. But yeah, not a big fan of locking down dragons with shield bash either.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:36 pm

Destruction used to be good then it took an arrow in the knee. :celebration:

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:17 pm

If you think this then you've never played a mage who uses both Destruction and Conjuration, and can see the vast gulf in effectiveness between the two at higher levels. Here a test which, if you have a suitable mage, should be fairly simple:

1) Find a barrow or other burial location
2) Find a Draugr Scourge Lord (will usually be at the back)
3) Fire any Expert-level Destruction spell, note the pitiful amount of the DSL's HP bar it removes
4) Summon a Dremora Lord and watch it obliterate that same creature

If magic were balanced, the Destruction spell would be almost as effective as the Dremora summon in the same time frame, and it simply isn't. Sure, you can stun-lock the DSL and whittle it to death, but why bother when you can kill it 10x as quickly with a summon? In stark contrast to this is what happens when that same DSL faces a high-level well-equipped Assassin using either a Bow or a pair of Daggers- it dies instantly, without knowing WTF just hit it. I can't speak for how a 2H or Sword+Shield character fares as I don't play them, but it's likely to be a fairly short fight.

Unless you meant globally balanced, in which case you might be right, since the top-end summons are pretty powerful, especially in pairs. I doubt it, though, since you cannot massively boost Destruction damage the way you can Archery or Melee damage. Of course, it's hard to properly weight the relative safety of the stun-lock, since it can disable pretty much anything in the game but most folks probably can't juggle multiple opponents with it, so how broadly useful it actually is in practice is debatable.

That said, the case under discussion is Destruction by itself, and when stacked against Archery or Melee it's way behind in terms of raw output, which is what we're trying to address.

I know what damage spells and summons do, and i know what damage melee does i have a high level mage and a high level warrior. I simply don't want destruction magic to be increased. For me mage gameplay feels balanced while one hitting bosses as melee feels broken. I don't wanna further overpower mages by increasing destruction magic. I feel that upping destruction damage will ruin the game for me. I do not feel destruction to be useless. You can compare apples to oranges all day for all i care, i don't have to agree though.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:49 am

I know what damage spells and summons do, and i know what damage melee does i have a high level mage and a high level warrior. I simply don't want destruction magic to be increased. For me mage gameplay feels balanced while one hitting bosses as melee feels broken. I don't wanna further overpower mages by increasing destruction magic. I feel that upping destruction damage will ruin the game for me. I do not feel destruction to be useless. You can compare apples to oranges all day for all i care, i don't have to agree though.

I feel the same way.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:59 am

the only thing I really use destruction for is cloak spells on my warrior. I enchant my armor with reduce destruction cost, and use cloak spells when needed. that being said I play on expert and my warrior uses 2-handed and I make sure not to over-level Smithing.

I believe at level 18 my smithing is level 51 with my highest perk being Orcish. its starting to get to a point where the general dungeon fodder is easily dispatched, but boss enemies will take me out in one or two shots. so the only time I use cloaks are when I fight those types of enemies.

melee is much stronger than destruction, but I think it was made that way because magic is more versatile. you shouldn't have best damage output with the best crowd control, plus there ability to Summon. I get those who want to just blow everything up. Cuz I'd love Yup do the same.

if you really wanna be a pure damage output character with magic, progress ONLY destruction... find gear to reduce destruction spell cost, and perk out JUST destruction. you'll be like level 15 with master destruction spells that you can use Cuz your spell cost is 8% it was originally.

there you go, living nuke.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:17 pm

They should scale. It's ridiculous to show off all kinds of varied destruction attacks and then make them useless in the end since they don't scale at all.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:09 am

Destruction is fairly pathetic but it's mostly because there is no way to increase the damage output. I think there should be an increased dmg enchant mod, and significant nerfs to the reduced mana cost enchant mod. As well as nerfs to impact. As of now once you get higher levels you're basically stuck spamming spells that do awful damage but stunlock most everything. It's just dumb.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:41 pm

They should scale. It's ridiculous to show off all kinds of varied destruction attacks and then make them useless in the end since they don't scale at all.

This. At the very least there should be higher versions of the lower spells available (like adept Sparks for example) that have the same effect but with higher damage. Make them spellbooks, have the usual merchants sell them at the right level, and you'll have a more varied list of spells rather then what we have now. I don't mind having to buy higher versions rather then have them scale from scratch (Master versions of spells should scale though), but at least that would allow for some more variety.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:17 pm

Fix: Make D spells cheaper, and replace the enchantments that lower the cost with enchantments that increase the damage.

Ok D spells cost WAY to much for what you get. Casting a cloak spell on yourself cost a lot more than summoning an atronach of the same element which comes with a constant cloak spell. Please explain that to me. Why is it cheaper to put an atronach in harms way with all of its powers than it is to put myself in harms way just to use a cloak spell?

Replacing the cost with a damage increase would allow you to do with destruction what you do with melee attacks. Of course they don't do enough damage to begin with so it wouldn't be as broken... might not be broken at all because you would still need magicka.

Late game D spells are not powerful enough... period. The people saying that it is fine are either playing on an easier difficulty setting, they like casting a D spell/conjuration then running away for every fight, or they are still low level. I played a pure mage for a long time. I stopped playing with him when I ran into multiple deathlords and it took me forever to kill them... all while they could 1 hit me with an ebony bow. Then i switched to a battlemage, 1hand & conjuration, and he is steamrolling everything in his path.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:56 am

I know what damage spells and summons do, and i know what damage melee does i have a high level mage and a high level warrior. I simply don't want destruction magic to be increased. For me mage gameplay feels balanced while one hitting bosses as melee feels broken. I don't wanna further overpower mages by increasing destruction magic. I feel that upping destruction damage will ruin the game for me. I do not feel destruction to be useless. You can compare apples to oranges all day for all i care, i don't have to agree though.

Too bad destruction is underpowered as listed by all the reasons in this thread. And when my friend whose first elderscroll game being Skyrim thinks that magic overall svcks, then that should hint to how much it svcks.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:24 pm

I have a level 46 pure mage and the only way I kill the bosses and dragons without running because my mana is gone, is the enchanting 4 items to -25% destruction cost.

The cost of dual casting is outrageous, and even if I just had -75% I would run out of mana before I could kill the boss creatures.

Mind you, with spamming destruction you also have to keep your armor spell up (Dear GOD why did you make it ONE FREAKING MINUTE?!?), healing, and maybe even summoning or
doing other spells.

I guess I dont have this "Stun" lock perk that people are using, because Im usually summoning things to take hits for me, healing and blasting the same tired old spells over and over again.

I havent even tried for master spells, the quests to me are kinda dumb.

Overall I quit playing my mage because of the sheer amount of repetitiveness + the feeling I have cheated.

I feel like Im cheating on my melee characters when I get 100 smithing, I mean once I do that, even on master level its easy.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:06 am

Uber strong compared to Novice spells sure. But compared to Melee and Archery they are really weak. My level 35 Warrior can take out a Draugr Deathlord in one Dual Wield power attack with two Glass Swords.

My level 35 Mage can sit back at a comfortable distance and take out a Draugr Deathlord in a few easy casts; however, if someone surprises me or gets close, I could be in big trouble.

The point of the preceding sentence is that I'm playing against the game and not your level 35 warrior. Playing as a pure mage in this game is FUN. If other playstyles are overpowered, that's their problem.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:52 pm

Destro-mage archetype is pretty silly, it's necesary to be fixed with a actualization or patch or whatever. Saddly Beth has no a tradition upgrading game mechanics ,just bugs.

If justice exist we must have all guarantees to play the role we want, without feel we're trolled at see other builds being overpowered. I guess i read Mr Staff wrote that patches will fix "balance" stuff too . Anyway i dont know wht waiting for, i am freaking console user, if they'll do nothing about this i'm fried.