After watching the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NX-MvnYUEs video, i saw an unimaginable atmosphere for the game that even if you may like or not as a whole, portrayed some details that added to the believability of the cities. I't also got me thinking of a few not seen here that can complement it.

You can continue afterwards in the replies, as long as they are not taxing:
- Some big trees in between houses and around towns, and sometimes close to the shores.
- Small wavy water streams that reach into the cities or settlements, probably with some sparse small fishes
- Bards, jesters and live taverns (RadiantAI)
- Women washing clothes in rivers (RadiantAI)
- Wooden bridges
- Lit lanterns in house at night
- Big jars and vases in front of homes for plants
- Sounds of insects and crickets
- Birds standing on the floor or trees that may fly away as you approach
- Occasional mosquito clouds and single butterflies
- Occasional tamed wolf next to a house or tent in the Nordic settlements
- Occasional small plants growing in the rocky streets of a full blown city, or vines from big rocky walls

Just be sure not to ask for complex mechanisms like tons of people, animals, pets, bunnies and bugs, because that would tax the AI too much and will be left aside. Better go for those small details and design concepts that you hadn't thought before and have an easier chance of being there included.

Again, the keywords are occasional and sparse in case of living creatures.

Edit: i'll keep adding more from replies and my own ideas overtime.

Livestock and gardens in the towns is what I'd like to see. The average family should have a couple goats and chickens for milk and eggs, with their basic vegetables growing outside. Raise lot of rabbits for eating, then selling the fur to the cordwainer.

lots of people on the streets (not hundreds, just some )

biggest problem is that the people just stand around and that's something that people don't do in real life... Bards, jesters and live taverns is what I would love to see!

The previous Gamebryo engine for TES was really bad at handling many things at the same time. It lagged after just a few NPCs....

I think Creation engine handles this a lot better. Basically all new engines do.
This should allow a lot more objects to be in place.

A lot of objects are not always something visually good though...


Anyway I partly agree with your list, although I think moscquito clouds, single butterflies, and tamed wolves are a maybe. They shouldn't be anywhere
Just in places seem appropriate. Also, sounds of insects and crickets are a maybe too. Even though I absolutely love animal sounds like that, they definitely aren't always suitable in cities. In villages "close to temperate nature", yes!
In big cities or cities in snow, no! Would love to hear them in the wilderness though...

Finally, lit lanterns in house at night... well yes, but not always. People don't have lights on when they're sleeping. Lanterns, candles and such should be lit though when it's dark and people aren't sleeping.

Kinda off topic, but I would love some real nice farmlands. Real fields, and some windmills and watermills... I just love those

I agree with farm animals. It would be so much more realistic to have the NPC's go out behind their house and kill todays meal or whatever.

Nearly none of your suggestions are hardware friendly actually ^^; But I doubt if this could be achieved without needing better hardware.
To be honest,I like objects more to add to the atmosphere.Also unique buildings would add a lot I think.But I never liked the modded cities drowning in trees.Morrowind looks like a tropical forest when modded that way,which seems kinda wrong to me O_o

Basically I want extremely dark nights except when Massar and Secunda are out, then it can still be pretty dark but just enough light to see well enough like in the real world. I also want to see lights emanating from villages and cities in the distance. I don't want to have to change the INF again... Frankly, I want nights that actually require you to have a torch, a light spell or night-eye.

That's why all of that should be "occasional". Insects and their sounds may be seen in any 'medieval' city and ambient, not many mosquitoes and crickets in snow but yes in all other climates in the whole game, and an occasional pet wolf is well in place too.

Lanterns, you described them right. Maybe have townspeople light them as part of Radiant AI? I'd die to see that.

Again, too much animal life is too much more AI to manage even if simple, so i wouldn't say i want that because it won't be included. And the keywords are occasional and sparse.

From what we've heard, I think this will happen. More people walking around would help.


Background noise is also important to giving the illusion of being in a big town---voices, pvssyr, random sounds...

You know what, these are really great ideas that adds a lot to immersion. If they are not in, I might start modding the game myself to add these, it shouldn't be too complicated.

More people wandering around. More kinds of people showing up moving by and then leaving to be replacxed with other new people passing through.

More homes with people in them.. more homes you can buy from a local bank or something. a market place with multiple little stores selling food and alchemy stuff and little cheap things a tiny shop would sell.

Pets mvoving about.

Rats and bugs.

birds.

more nobodies to hunt if your a vamp ina city not everyone shoulkd be important or missed if gone...

It would probably be too much to ask, but I've always wanted to see festivals or rituals. I'd like to see people marching through the streets throwing confetti! It would be cool to see a bunch of people and be like

"What's goin on GUiz!?"

Consolidated marketplaces presented as such are something that adds a new element just by rearranging already present elements like individual scattered markets, so that's a great idea that adds to immersion. But lots of people, pets, rats, bugs, birds are exactly what i'm avoiding here because they are taxing. I'm going for smaller concept ideas and details.

Skyrim is definitely looking like it will be the most life like so far. Partly because of the environment, like plants, water, snow, but also NPCs who have better scheduling then before. Also, there was a screenshot showing a man with some type of hound, so tamed wolves are unnecessary.

People having realistic conversations that don't constantly repeat... and if they can't make them not repeat, don't do them at all.

Well they kind've fixed that in Oblivion. Conversations were greyed out if you already had them so that it would be that they wouldn't say it again to you making repetitive conversation "non-existent" in the game while still allowing you to listen to their answer again if you accidentally skipped ahead. There were the occasional same answer here and there to a question but that's not all that common and even in real life, some people have the same answers to a question.