Details on Skyrim! : V - Skyrim

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:32 am

Only thing i didnt know was how bethesda wanted to reveal the faction system...now im excited..also this thread taught me that the info we might see in a month will prolly be that demo lol very helpful thread guys

im super excited now...i wants ta see how a mission is presented in game

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:01 pm

With combat being one of the highest priorities for development, I trust Bethesda will make all combinations fun and playable. I saw a lot of one hand/magic combos in the trailer, looks good in action.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:35 am

Only thing i didnt know was how bethesda wanted to reveal the faction system...now im excited..also this thread taught me that the info we might see in a month will prolly be that demo lol very helpful thread guys

im super excited now...i wants ta see how a mission is presented in game

very very exciting

» Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:32 pm

Okay I'll follow the spoiler warning, but I'm pretty sure this was revealed to be a misunderstanding?

Spoiler

* Unique weapons will possess hidden effects that you will only discover upon using the weapon.
Wasn't this confirmed to be a misunderstanding, and was actually something to do with the effects varying due to Radiant Story?

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:52 am

OMGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

I want this.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:53 am

OMGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

I want this.

i think it wants u 2

» Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:35 pm

Thanks a lot for posting all of this stuff. I read about a fair amount of it in OXM, but some of the details are completely new to me.

Can't wait for the "new details" in the coming weeks.

» Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:34 pm

The only thing I don't like the sound of is being unable to block with a weapon in one hand and spell in the other. Seems kinda of stupid and restrictive to me, I could easily parry one handed while holding something in my other hand >=(

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:52 am

I remember all this but its a nice refresher.

I'm guessing for factions they might pull something off like Obsidian did in NV. That would make me excited, but it could just be something entirely different.

I'm just glad I'm not much of a spell-sword with the whole blocking thing.

But I'm wondering if will be able to use magic while equipped with a bow like in Oblivion?

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:45 am

Some of this was new to me as I don't read OXM, thanks very much for the post kind sir.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:13 am

Most everything sounds good, except not being able to block with a weapon/spell. That's not balance, it's just bad game design.

yeh i hear u, that svcks, but i guess we have 2 take the good with the not so good in this game

The only thing I don't like the sound of is being unable to block with a weapon in one hand and spell in the other. Seems kinda of stupid and restrictive to me, I could easily parry one handed while holding something in my other hand >=(

I remember all this but its a nice refresher.

I'm guessing for factions they might pull something off like Obsidian did in NV. That would make me excited, but it could just be something entirely different.

I'm just glad I'm not much of a spell-sword with the whole blocking thing.

But I'm wondering if will be able to use magic while equipped with a bow like in Oblivion?

Ok guys I did a little research,....again, and this is what I've found...

http://www.ps3trophies.org/news/news-2949-Elder-Scrolls-V--Skyrim-First-Gameplay-Trailer--Here-Be-Dragons.html

These guys think that a parry function will serve as your defensive action w/o a shield. I do too. Based on thier combat all you will be doing is parrying and waiting for the timing to get an open swipe. Just think about Assassins Creed, lots of parrying. I'm actually a fan of this flowing combat, like arkham asylum. This is my hypothesis. Which I made to hopefully reason out this logical inconsistancy while we wait on bethesda to explain the other half of everything. If there was no parrying, I'd burn a $20 bill,..so yea im about $20 sure, almost 40

Okay I'll follow the spoiler warning, but I'm pretty sure this was revealed to be a misunderstanding?

Spoiler

* Unique weapons will possess hidden effects that you will only discover upon using the weapon.
Wasn't this confirmed to be a misunderstanding, and was actually something to do with the effects varying due to Radiant Story?

It's a possibility as it was translated from the official french playstation magazine, and summarized into that sentence.

Some of this was new to me as I don't read OXM, thanks very much for the post kind sir.

It's my pleasure.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:35 am

"* Dragon encounters will not be scripted events. These Dragons may attack towns and cities during its travels, which may cause it to be set ablaze."

I am very skeptical about this one, I could see it being a scripted event triggered by something. I don't see dragons in the game randomly doing this at all to be realistic, I could see a developer saying "It's something were messing with" but its a little early. Yeea so real skeptical on that one lol.

Where Arrok did you get that line of information from curious?

It was from GameInformer. I think its the Skyrim technology section. Thats one of the ones thats in for sure,....they weren't scared to show off their dragons.

Perhaps the most impressive use of the Behavior technology is how Bethesda is using it to create the dragon animations. Bethesda has worked meticulously to make sure the beasts look powerful and menacing when banking, flapping their wings, gaining altitude before making another strafing run, and breathing fire on their hapless victims. None of the dragons' actions are scripted, and Behavior helps make the movements look non-mechanical, even when the dragons are speaking/shouting.

Link:
http://www.gameinformer.com/games/the_elder_scrolls_v_skyrim/b/xbox360/archive/2011/01/17/the-technology-behind-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim.aspx?PostPageIndex=2

Also I have located another article mentioning parrying for you guys worrying about no block.

Defence has also been ramped up a notch, with meticulous timing required in order to successfully parry a blow.

From here:
http://www.www1.psu.com/games/269/%3C/Fresh-Elder-Scrolls-V--Skyrim-details-surface---a010489-p0.php

» Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:49 pm

Most everything sounds good, except not being able to block with a weapon/spell. That's not balance, it's just bad game design.

The only thing I don't like the sound of is being unable to block with a weapon in one hand and spell in the other. Seems kinda of stupid and restrictive to me, I could easily parry one handed while holding something in my other hand >=(

Okay, I do have to say here, you guys are misjudging the situation, and it's only because you aren't thinking about it the right way. They're doing that for balance, and it IS good game design to keep the combat balanced.

To restrict you while holding a melee weapon and a spell is fair because then you aren't OP. Here's my mock-up of the new system:

Consider it this way, you can have a sword and shield - Equal parts standard attack and block (Broken down - +2 melee, +2 block)

Or 1 melee weapon - Strong standard melee attack, and weak block (Broken down - +3 melee, +1 block)

Or 2 melee weapons - additional melee attack power, and weak blocking (Broken down - +3 melee, +1 block)

Or a 2h melee weapon - very powerful attack, weaker block (Broken down - +3 melee, +1 block)

Or a bow - power range attack, and weak block/knockback (Broken down - +3 ranged, +1 block)

Or a melee weapon with a staff - melee attack and ranged attack, with weak block?(assumption) (Broken down - +2 melee, +2 ranged, +1 block) *Unconfirmed how this will end up in-game*

Or a spell and a staff - additional ranged attack power, and no block?(assumption) (Broken down - +4 ranged/touch, +0 block) *Also unconfirmed*

Or 2 staves(?) - double power ranged attack, and weak block?(assumption) (Broken down - +4 ranged, +1 block) *Also unconfirmed*

Or a spell and shield(?) - equal parts ranged attack and block (Broken down - +2 ranged, +2 block) *Also unconfirmed*

Or a spell on each hand - double power ranged attack, weak block?(assumption) (Broken down - +4 ranged/AoE/touch, +1 block) *Also unconfirmed*

Or, finally, a melee weapon and a spell - equal parts attack and ranged attack, both powerful, and no block (Broken down - +2 ranged/touch, +2 melee, +0 block)

Why is this balanced? Each method of using your hands has an inherent strength, and a weakness. If you could hold a sword, use a spell from your magicka, and block with your melee weapon, you would be without weakness by comparison to the other configurations. That's basically equivalent to walking around with a sword and a gun, and blocking power at close range. Broken down - +2 ranged, +2 melee, +1 block So what Bethesda is doing is +2 ranged, +2 melee, 0 block. I know this is just a mock-up scale, but I think the idea is correct. No single hand use fighting style SHOULD equal a total of 5 points of combat power for any character. Thus you must choose a style of combat that you like, and excel at it, but no one style is actually greater than any other.
NOTE: "Sword and staff" will additionally be limited by staff energy, "Double Staff" will be very limited by staff energy, and "Double Spell" will be very limited by high magicka use. That will render the +1 block advantage irrelevant compared to the restriction of use. Therefore assuming all various configurations to be equally powerful +4 styles.

Again, this is just my theory on the how and why of the new system, but I think it's a fair estimate of what they're going for to keep the combat gameplay balanced, fun, and diverse, while maximizing replayability. What do you think of it?

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:55 am

Thanks, haven't heard some of these.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:30 am

Precisely what Deity Matrix said. It's only balancing. You get extra crowd control, firepower, survivability or even defense, according to the magic you're employing.

They've mentioned that spells have more physicality to them, which would allow some staggering just before the "OH NOES" blows, and frost spells reduce an enemy's speed, allowing one to keep them at bay more effectively and/or just outright slash it with proper timing, the enemy being slower, finishing a combo with a staggering power attack.

A significant portion of unbalanced mechanics can be worked around with ingenuity, trial and error, strategizing and rhythmic understanding. GEt a good player on flow state and he may break a dragon with a shield in each hand >D

And that's ignoring that fact that Bethesda is likely aware of all those problems and that they'll probably employ plenty of efforts to make sure they strike a balance.

Besides, thank you so much Arrok. That's a great compendium and there was a nice amount of info in it that I had never come across.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:15 am

Okay, I do have to say here, you guys are misjudging the situation, and it's only because you aren't thinking about it the right way. They're doing that for balance, and it IS good game design to keep the combat balanced.

To restrict you while holding a melee weapon and a spell is fair because then you aren't OP. Here's my mock-up of the new system:

Consider it this way, you can have a sword and shield - Equal parts standard attack and block (Broken down - +2 melee, +2 block)

Or 2 melee weapons - additional melee attack power, and weak blocking (Broken down - +3 melee, +1 block)

Or a 2h melee weapon - very powerful attack, weaker block (Broken down - +3 melee, +1 block)

Or a bow - power range attack, and weak block/knockback (Broken down - +3 ranged, +1 block)

Or a melee weapon with a staff - melee attack and ranged attack, with weak block?(assumption) (Broken down - +2 melee, +2 ranged, +1 block) *Unclear how this will end up in-game*

Or a spell and a staff - additional ranged attack power, and no block?(assumption) (Broken down - +4 ranged/touch, +0 block) *Also unclear*

Or 2 staves(?) - double power ranged attack, and weak block?(assumption) (Broken down - +4 ranged, +1 block) *Also unclear*

Or a spell on each hand - double power ranged attack, weak block?(assumption) (Broken down - +4 ranged/AoE/touch, +1 block) *Also unclear*

Or, finally, a melee weapon and a spell - equal parts attack and ranged attack, both powerful, and no block (Broken down - +2 ranged/touch, +2 melee, +0 block)

Why is this balanced? Each method of using your hands has an inherent strength, and a weakness. If you could hold a sword, use a spell from your magicka, and block with only one weapon, you would be without weakness by comparison to the other configurations. That's basically equivalent to walking around with a sword and a gun, and blocking power at close range. Broken down - +2 ranged, +2 melee, +1 block So what Bethesda is doing is +2 ranged, +2 melee, 0 block. I know this is just a mock-up scale, but I think the idea is correct. No single hand use fighting style SHOULD equal a total of 5 points of combat power for any character. Thus you must choose a style of combat that you like, and excel at it, but no one style is actually greater than any other. NOTE: "Sword and staff" will additionally be limited by staff energy, "Double Staff" will be very limited by staff energy, and "Double Spell" will be very limited by high magicka use. That will render the +1 block advantage irrelevant compared to the restriction of use. Therefore assuming all various configurations to be equally powerful +4 styles.

Again, this is just my theory on the how and why of the new system, but I think it's a fair estimate of what they're going for to keep the combat gameplay balanced, fun, and diverse, while maximizing replayability. What do you think of it?

I definately think its going to be balanced, you could also toss up a shield spell before battle, and you could alternate your spells on one hand mid battle.

By the way I found some more OXM highlights, im putting it up on the OP too...its actually from here originally, just adding it in case ppl missed it

Spoiler

-There is a perk that will lower the sound of your footsteps.
-Perk for Axe that enables deeper cuts, which means prolonged bleeding. You can hit someone once and they will eventually bleed out.
-Eventual perk upgrade for Maces that will allow you to hit for full damage, ignoring armor stats.
-The article mentions placing runes on the floor (that we know already) but in particular talks about 'lob a frost rune down and if an enemy wanders over it, shards of ice will be launched through its body'
-No more agility to build up so don't have to keep jumping around to level up (I assume they mean no longer skills like acrobatics and athletes but they use the word agility)
-There is a dragon shout called 'Unrelenting Force' which pushes anything standing directly in front of you backwards.
-Dragon shouts have cooldown periods after each shout performed. Individual shouts will have their own cooldown time.
-In the northern parts of Solitude is the Bard's College. The city is a busy port and there's event similar to bonfire night that has the burning of an effigy of King Olaf.
-Windhelm is the largest city. It has a palace that should look spectacular. This is also apparently the hangout for the Imperial ---Guards who monitor the path to Morrowind.
-Bleak Falls Barrows is a dungeon, with ancient Nord catacombs which features rivers, tree roots coming through the ceiling and light coming through odd cracks.
-120 Dungeons and they claim that 'no two areas will be alike'.
-Just to re-confirm this fact straight from Todd Howard. Oblivion had 1 dungeon designer with artists doing the rest. Skyrim has 8 dungeon designers.
-Whole world is hand-crafted. Oblivion had some generated landscapes and there is NONE of that anymore used in Skyrim.
-The Shivering isles expansion inspired the team that unique, hand-crafted cities, where no two buildings look the same, was the way to go.
-Example of a 'Radiant Story'. OXM UK recieved a quest to go to Bleak Falls Barrow and retrieve a golden dragon claw antique and take it back to shopkeeper Lucan. If you killed Lucan, the quest would change to his friend Camilla instead.
-The Snow. Has been a lot of confusion about this. OXM UK says that snowfall is dynamic. Instead of a texture with a bit of white added, landscapes realistically get dusted with snow landing in appropiate nooks and crannies.
-There are one-off puzzles in certain dungeons.
-Example of new AI: 'Wolves have a den. Few times a day they go out and do a patrol and hunt in a pack. If they kill something then they'll hang out there. If you go outside and they're on patrol they will come after you. If they've killed something they will guard that and not chase you down as they want to look after it.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:06 am

I definately think its going to be balanced, you could also toss up a shield spell before battle, and you could alternate your spells on one hand mid battle.

By the way I found some more OXM highlights, im putting it up on the OP too...its actually from here originally, just adding it in case ppl missed it

Spoiler

-There is a perk that will lower the sound of your footsteps.
-Perk for Axe that enables deeper cuts, which means prolonged bleeding. You can hit someone once and they will eventually bleed out.
-Eventual perk upgrade for Maces that will allow you to hit for full damage, ignoring armor stats.
-The article mentions placing runes on the floor (that we know already) but in particular talks about 'lob a frost rune down and if an enemy wanders over it, shards of ice will be launched through its body'
-No more agility to build up so don't have to keep jumping around to level up (I assume they mean no longer skills like acrobatics and athletes but they use the word agility)
-There is a dragon shout called 'Unrelenting Force' which pushes anything standing directly in front of you backwards.
-Dragon shouts have cooldown periods after each shout performed. Individual shouts will have their own cooldown time.
-In the northern parts of Solitude is the Bard's College. The city is a busy port and there's event similar to bonfire night that has the burning of an effigy of King Olaf.
-Windhelm is the largest city. It has a palace that should look spectacular. This is also apparently the hangout for the Imperial ---Guards who monitor the path to Morrowind.
-Bleak Falls Barrows is a dungeon, with ancient Nord catacombs which features rivers, tree roots coming through the ceiling and light coming through odd cracks.
-120 Dungeons and they claim that 'no two areas will be alike'.
-Just to re-confirm this fact straight from Todd Howard. Oblivion had 1 dungeon designer with artists doing the rest. Skyrim has 8 dungeon designers.
-Whole world is hand-crafted. Oblivion had some generated landscapes and there is NONE of that anymore used in Skyrim.
-The Shivering isles expansion inspired the team that unique, hand-crafted cities, where no two buildings look the same, was the way to go.
-Example of a 'Radiant Story'. OXM UK recieved a quest to go to Bleak Falls Barrow and retrieve a golden dragon claw antique and take it back to shopkeeper Lucan. If you killed Lucan, the quest would change to his friend Camilla instead.
-The Snow. Has been a lot of confusion about this. OXM UK says that snowfall is dynamic. Instead of a texture with a bit of white added, landscapes realistically get dusted with snow landing in appropiate nooks and crannies.
-There are one-off puzzles in certain dungeons.
-Example of new AI: 'Wolves have a den. Few times a day they go out and do a patrol and hunt in a pack. If they kill something then they'll hang out there. If you go outside and they're on patrol they will come after you. If they've killed something they will guard that and not chase you down as they want to look after it.

Nice confirmations, thanks!

Wow, 120 unique dungeons, vs. 200+ similar dungeons. Way to go Bethesda!

100% Hand-crafted world
100% Unique Dungeons
100% Unique Buildings

I'll take this over better graphics any day.

» Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:24 pm

Only thing i didnt know was how bethesda wanted to reveal the faction system...now im excited..also this thread taught me that the info we might see in a month will prolly be that demo lol very helpful thread guys

im super excited now...i wants ta see how a mission is presented in game

The info we get this month will not be that demo. We've already gotten impressions from GI and all the international mags on that demo. In fact, I don't think we'll ever see it. It's far more likely we will see a demo walkthrough around E3. BGS will be showing something "behind closed doors" at their booth. It's by invitation only. They should have an updated demo for select menbers of the media.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:27 pm

wait what theres a demo o.o.....

Is this true?! When is it available? If it's public.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:53 am

Is this true?! When is it available? If it's public.

We're not getting a playable demo, we're just 'speculating' that the new info this month pete hines said was comming is a video of a gameplay demo.

Something very similar was done for oblivion, so I was just guessing.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:22 am

honestly i hate context sensitive melee.... i hate when i'm not trying to fight someone like if i'm about to die and i wanna run. and they make it really difficult for me to take off.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:52 am

We're not getting a playable demo, we're just 'speculating' that the new info this month pete hines said was comming is a video of a gameplay demo.

Something very similar was done for oblivion, so I was just guessing.

I don't think we'll get gameplay before E3.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:21 am

I don't think we'll get gameplay before E3.

I know, I wouldnt normally think so. Its odd that they released a gameplay trailer with so little info out so far.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:50 am

OK, so somebody clear this up for me. If I'm fighting with a longsword and a dagger (dual wielding), can I block? Wouldn't make much sense if I couldn't. However, I only saw two handed weapons and weapon and shield mentioned. Parrying counters... does that mean for dual wielding I'll have an Assassins creed deal, where I dodge the enemies attack altogether, and hit them with my secondary weapon?

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:16 am

OK, so somebody clear this up for me. If I'm fighting with a longsword and a dagger (dual wielding), can I block? Wouldn't make much sense if I couldn't. However, I only saw two handed weapons and weapon and shield mentioned. Parrying counters... does that mean for dual wielding I'll have an Assassins creed deal, where I dodge the enemies attack altogether, and hit them with my secondary weapon?

just have to wait and see how it's implemented. ideally yes, there would be some kind of dodge/parry option when dual wielding. however, think of a bandit with a big 2 handed axe. how do you parry that when he swings it? a sword or dagger is not going to deflect squat from a blow like that so you'd have to dodge it then strike when his momentum carries him past you.