Dev Oversight or Laziness? : V - Skyrim

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:57 pm

Does anyone Else find it sad that while being able to have a Pet(dog) as a Companion is awesome, apparently in the world of skyrim, there is only one breed of dog?

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:39 pm

They did not have an infinite amount of time to make 167 breeds of dog for you to have as a pet. This is Skyrim, not Nintendogs

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:00 pm

They did not have an infinite amount of time to make 167 breeds of dog for you to have as a pet. This is Skyrim, not Nintendogs

I guess so. It's acceptable these days. right?

They should have had TONS of time, for all of the corners they cut elsewhere, to make at least a few variants.

Wind mills...there, but why?
Grain mills there, but why?
Lumber Mills there, again..why?

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:43 pm

I guess so. It's acceptable these days. right?

They should have had TONS of time, for all of the corners they cut elsewhere, to make at least a few variants.

Wind mills...there, but why?
Grain mills there, but why?
Lumber Mills there, again..why?

These days? How many breeds of dog could you have as a pet in Oblivion? How many in morrowind? None? I guess it's a step up then, isn't it?

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:39 am

These days? How many breeds of dog could you have as a pet in Oblivion? How many in morrowind? None? I guess it's a step up then, isn't it?

So, you're saying you'll trade 1 dog for everything else that was removed from TES previous games?

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:22 pm

People, please...stop being such [censored]...Embargo does have a quite valid point.
They really could've made 3 or 4 different kind of dogs, they could've made 3 or 4 diff thief faces for the ones in Riften...and etc. If you are doing an open world RPG, you should, and I really mean SHOULD, create variety for the world to feel credible.

And let me say I'm in love with this game...but really, it has his faults, it's not perfect, bear with that.

/edit
Fan-boy is a bad word...?

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:53 pm

Hello fellow gamers.

After reading http://www.joystiq.com/2011/12/11/skyrim-to-have-multiple-dlc-releases-powerful-buckets/ and seeing the phrase ""It was like day two, and we went, what? Do we fix that? Our lead programmer is pissed and wants to fix it, and I said I'm not sure we should. That's one of those where maybe we leave it in."

I started to think, that little bucket trick is a nice little ("kudos to the person who found it") type of thing. It's thinking outside of the box, really.

What I'd really like to know is why Something like http://i.imgur.com/BXCDR.jpg is totally acceptable to a Triple A Studio, and A Triple A Title. I mean there is a complete lack of any variation for the random thieves that spawn(at least in Riften). Is this A dev poke at Anonymous? Is it Laziness? Is it a lack of taking pride in what can be done while developing a title? It's sad to see the same face regurgitated back at me.

These bodies accumulated over days/weeks, I just stacked them up for the sole purpose to show the lack of what a Triple A studio should be ashamed of. I'm aware that it is common to do this in the industry(copy/pasting code), because of course, it saves time and money, but at least a little more effort could have been made. You guys aren't new to the industry. Anyways, I'd be more embarrassed over something like what is shown in the pic, then a nice little easter egg for someone thinking outside of the box...

yes, we all know modders can fix it, the question is, why should they have to when you, the devs could have at least made a few variations of your own. It would have been nice to see maybe a female random, or at the very least another face..I've seen the same face over and over again during a siege with the exception that maybe there are 2 or 3 different models used.

Lack of character variation for thieves? I don't know. Maybe the developers felt like they had bigger fish to fry. Or they didn't think it was a big deal. Who knows?

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:29 am

Lack of character variation for thieves? I don't know. Maybe the developers felt like they had bigger fish to fry. Or they didn't think it was a big deal. Who knows?

That is just one of many examples that they should be ashamed of. They(Beth studio) are supposed to be making the rules. If these are the rules they are making, and the industry, as well as the gamers that support them are OK with this sort of...whatever you want to call it, it's a sad, sad state.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:43 pm

So, you're saying you'll trade 1 dog for everything else that was removed from TES previous games?

Nah.

Dual wielding, all the separate companions, the new spell system, the new spells, the actual necromancy we get now, and everything else we get? Sure.

Or are you still mad they took Thaumaturgy out in Morrowind?

I'm not saying the games perfect, but complaining that there's only one breed of dog? That's... trivial.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:25 pm

Nah.

Dual wielding, all the separate companions, the new spell system, the new spells, the actual necromancy we get now, and everything else we get? Sure.

Or are you still mad they took Thaumaturgy out in Morrowind?

I'm not saying the games perfect, but complaining that there's only one breed of dog? That's... trivial.

Ok, I'll bite. go back and read this thread from the beginning please. Thanks.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:24 pm

Ok, I'll bite. go back and read this thread from the beginning please. Thanks.

Yes, it could have been better, but it's still relatively trivial stuff. Generic thugs looking alike has been around since Arena. If they bug you that much... how have you managed to like the series up to this point?

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:12 pm

Hello fellow gamers.

After reading http://www.joystiq.com/2011/12/11/skyrim-to-have-multiple-dlc-releases-powerful-buckets/ and seeing the phrase ""It was like day two, and we went, what? Do we fix that? Our lead programmer is pissed and wants to fix it, and I said I'm not sure we should. That's one of those where maybe we leave it in."

I started to think, that little bucket trick is a nice little ("kudos to the person who found it") type of thing. It's thinking outside of the box, really.

What I'd really like to know is why Something like http://i.imgur.com/BXCDR.jpg is totally acceptable to a Triple A Studio, and A Triple A Title. I mean there is a complete lack of any variation for the random thieves that spawn(at least in Riften). Is this A dev poke at Anonymous? Is it Laziness? Is it a lack of taking pride in what can be done while developing a title? It's sad to see the same face regurgitated back at me.

These bodies accumulated over days/weeks, I just stacked them up for the sole purpose to show the lack of what a Triple A studio should be ashamed of. I'm aware that it is common to do this in the industry(copy/pasting code), because of course, it saves time and money, but at least a little more effort could have been made. You guys aren't new to the industry. Anyways, I'd be more embarrassed over something like what is shown in the pic, then a nice little easter egg for someone thinking outside of the box...

yes, we all know modders can fix it, the question is, why should they have to when you, the devs could have at least made a few variations of your own. It would have been nice to see maybe a female random, or at the very least another face..I've seen the same face over and over again during a siege with the exception that maybe there are 2 or 3 different models used.

Probably a little from Column A and a little from Column B.

Nobody really likes their work to be flawed, but in a team environment, it's easy to have another person or team say 'yeah yeah, we'll look at it', and then decide on their own that it's not as important as the original person thought, and it will get fixed if they have a free minute, otherwise, skip it. So I'd say oversight on the overall level wasn't good enough and laziness in regards to what's important to address was present

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:54 pm

Probably a little from Column A and a little from Column B.

Nobody really likes their work to be flawed, but in a team environment, it's easy to have another person or team say 'yeah yeah, we'll look at it', and then decide on their own that it's not as important as the original person thought, and it will get fixed if they have a free minute, otherwise, skip it. So I'd say oversight on the overall level wasn't good enough and laziness in regards to what's important to address was present

I am, what I like to consider an understanding person. I have the patience of a chopping block. I find it appalling that A Triple A studio would even think this is acceptable(as mentioned this is throughout the industry). The only reason(s) I can come up with is, They, themselves don't care, OR, they know that today's gamers will accept it without question, without reason and without any sense of integrity to the business.

/edit
consider myself as*

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:53 pm

AAA game production =/= infinite budget and time.

I think iI've finally nailed it. I can now put my finger on the sentence that best describes all the threads with legitimate complaints.
Simply put:

Gamers' standards have evolved quicker than those of the TES franchise.

Bethesda, close the gap.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:58 pm

I personally feel that even if they would have taken 5 more years and added all the things you bring up, there would have been more complaints.

"All the deer have the same facial expressions and run when they see me, why can't they be more random...lazy I say, and why are all the rabbits the same color"
"Snow really, why is it all white...no variation...just unacceptable"

It would be a never ending cycle with people who...look for every possible reason to show their disapproval.

You have no idea what they prioritized as being important, and what "Could" have been a lot worse had they not put extra time into it, and I do not claim to either.

I just enjoy the game for what it is, which in my opinion is very good..

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:18 pm

No, not lazy. Not in the slightest.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:27 am

My pile of thieves was ALL Khajiit...

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:09 am

The generic thief doesn't bother me as much as

Spoiler

the body of Ulfric laying on the Wilhelm throne days after I killed him, and the new Jarl of Wilhelm sitting on top of Ulfric's dead body

I find it funny that a lot of people state Beth created this "amazing huge world" , but in reality it is not so amazing, nor huge, when you start adding up all of these little things like 1 dog mesh, generic NPCs that look exactly the same, same generic dialog in every location, etc, etc...

And again, not that the game is not entertaining (glitches and all), it is just not this worderland some people make it out to be.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:46 am

I personally feel that even if they would have taken 5 more years and added all the things you bring up, there would have been more complaints.

"All the deer have the same facial expressions and run when they see me, why can't they be more random...lazy I say, and why are all the rabbits the same color"
"Snow really, why is it all white...no variation...just unacceptable"

Or worse, randomized thieves in one town, pretty, swirly snow, pink bunnies--but no CK.

Implying laziness on the part of the studio is unfair and disingenuous.

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:12 am

I personally feel that even if they would have taken 5 more years and added all the things you bring up, there would have been more complaints.

"All the deer have the same facial expressions and run when they see me, why can't they be more random...lazy I say, and why are all the rabbits the same color"
"Snow really, why is it all white...no variation...just unacceptable"

It would be a never ending cycle with people who...look for every possible reason to show their disapproval.

You have no idea what they prioritized as being important, and what "Could" have been a lot worse had they not put extra time into it, and I do not claim to either.

I just enjoy the game for what it is, which in my opinion is very good..

You're doing a big disservice to this board. By generalizing and portraying all complaints as ridiculous, through your misplaced caricature, you help dismiss many many and many more valid, specifi and reasonable complaints posted around here. Your stance is the opposite of what got us from Arena to Skyrim.

Shame on you.

*EDIT*

On topic, I don't think Beth was lazy. At all.
At times it was Brilliant, other times Inept.
Most of the times Bethesda fell somewhere in between.

This is a good game.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:58 pm

You're doing a big disservice to this board. By generalizing and portraying all complaints as ridiculous, through your misplaced caricature, you help dismiss many many and many more valid, specifi and reasonable complaints posted around here. Your stance is the opposite of what got us from Arena to Skyrim.

Shame on you.

Then people should learn not to mix in so many nitpicking items into their "valid" complaints.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:40 pm

Hello fellow gamers.

After reading http://www.joystiq.com/2011/12/11/skyrim-to-have-multiple-dlc-releases-powerful-buckets/ and seeing the phrase ""It was like day two, and we went, what? Do we fix that? Our lead programmer is pissed and wants to fix it, and I said I'm not sure we should. That's one of those where maybe we leave it in."

I started to think, that little bucket trick is a nice little ("kudos to the person who found it") type of thing. It's thinking outside of the box, really.

Somebody needs to take their gaming a bit less seriously...

Come on, it's a funny feature. What is absurd is that someone would exploit it, then get bored and ask it to be removed.

I'll never get tired of repeating this....seriously guys, do you REALLY need a game that takes your hand and tells you exactly what to do at any minute?

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:24 pm

I wouldn't call Bethesda "lazy" by any means. They seem to have put a lot of time and effort into even small and simple things like decorating a random pool of water here and there. Even they have resource and time demands and the sheer scope and under the hood complexity of the game world will lead to unforseen conflicts or silly things being missed.

I would call it laziness compared to what the original TES Team did for Morrowind. In TES III every NPC had a real name and not generic, some even had a back story. Even the daedric artifacts have been pulled down to just the main 15 or 16. In TES III there were loads of hand placed artifacts, daedric and otherwise. That is just two examples of the NEW BGS laziness. Anyone else care to add to the list....lol IMO with all the generic crap they have done since Oblivion. It really does take away from the immersion of being in another world.

Let us add the fact that the Morrowind team were about 20 people and the team now is about 50 to 100. Now tell me that makes sense. More people and less quality!?!?!

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:08 pm

And how water is all the same...why cant some water be lava? or tar pits? that would be epic...right? But no, I agree with you...I consider all the people I kill faceless victims...I dont stare into their face after i decapitate them and wonder why they all look the same...and if I did...I would just assume they were all from the same guild and therfor looked the same.

We're no where near a volcano.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:46 pm

Come on, it's a funny feature. What is absurd is that someone would exploit it, then get bored and ask it to be removed.

If it was a feature, and time was wasted on it, it could have and should have been done...better.