I would like if they looked on here often to get ideas to improve their games based off of what die hard fans want.

And again someone who believes the purpose of an official forum is to serve as the holy church of worship.

Tell you what: If that were the case, the cost of keeping up the forum would be wasted money. A bunch of drooling worshippers doesn't provide any meaningful information whatsoever, because you could dump the content of the local sewage tank on them and they'd still yell "Thank you, thank you". If an online community is to serve as a meaningful marketing tool, criticism is ten times more useful than a bunch of witch hunters running around yelling "Burn the blasphemers, they are desecrating the holy temple!". The Devs already have their opinions. Nodding and grinning at everything they put out doesn't give them any more information. Criticism on the other hand is a reason to think things over - they might still stick to their original opinion, but at least they got an additional perspective instead of just getting their own opinion reflected back at them.

This forum doesn't exist for your own personal welfare. It exists for two reasons: Because it's expected nowadays and would reflect negatively on Bethesda if it did not exist and because it can be an additional source of information on the outside world and on customer opinion. The first part doesn't really bring more money, it just prevents loss of it compared to previous products. The second part only helps bringing in money if truly ADDITIONAL information is being presented. "Todd said XYZ so that's how things are" is not additional information - Todd knew what he thought and said before he read that already.

Destructive hatred is not the same thing a constructive criticism.

I honestly cannot understand how you drew a totally illogical conclusion from my post. That you somehow got my opinion to say "I love everything about skyrim". I never said that.

Constructive criticism is not defined by being positive - quite the contrary.



You complained about negativity, did you not?

Constructive criticism is not defined by destructive hatred - quite the contrary. Your counterpoint must be more articulate than that, right?

i also have no clue how you came up with your post. He said nothing to instigate an abstract philosophical discussion about what is and is not ok to post on a public gaming forum.


Your opinion about why this forum exists is your own. And it is exactly that, an opinion. Your opinion about forums is based on an abstract form of reality. In fact, this forum exists for other reasons than you mention (because it's expected and because it's informational).

Venting.
Entertainment.
Hype.
Socializing.
anolyzing.
There are likely other reasons that the forum is so vibrant with activity.

I'm not sure why someone could believe that this forum (or most other gaming forums) is restricted to "expectation" and "informational." One thing that is obvious, you have not offered constructive criticism and have instead attempted to skew one other posters post. Which I found to be legitimate and normal.

Your counterpoint must be a bit more articulate than simple slander, no? Constructive criticism is most definitely not defined by YOU.



No, it's not based on an abstract form of reality. It's based on the reality of Bethesda being a business as opposed to a welfare organisation.



Way to miss the point - which was not "reasons that the forum is so vibrant with activity" but "reasons for this forum to exist". All of what you list is part of "It's expected" - it's expected of a game company in the 21st century to provide a forum in which people can do all that.

And that's the end of the story. Your venting doesn't pay the bills.



Well, then let me give you a reason why someone would believe that: Because believe it or not, gaming forums are marketing tools. That's what they exist for. They are not holy manna dropped from the heavens. They cost real money to create and maintain, and as such, there has to be some form of return on that investment.The forum exists because it helps Bethesda running their business profitably. Not to provide you with your personal platform.



One thing that is obvious is that you make every effort to prove correct what I said. The mere fact that you deny someone providing constructive criticism doesn't make it factual. And the mere fact that you found a post to be legitimate and normal doesn't mean that criticism of it is not warranted.

That is the fundamental problem in this forum: ANY form of criticism will immediately be labeled destructive and those voicing it "haters" . We've even had the situation in some threads of people providing plenty of alternative suggestions only to be accused of "destructive criticism" and being accused of not providing any solutions whatsoever - when the evidence to the contrary was within the same thread.

And thanks for providing one more piece of evidence for that.

You talk a lot. But really it's all non-sense. This is obvious to the casual observer. Which is nice since I no longer have to comment.

Ah yes, so it's nonsense that Bethesda is a company which has to make money to survive...

What's obvious to the casual observer is that you refuse to think through anything that remotely suggests you might be wrong. And hence the problem of you seeing destructive criticism everywhere. When you categorically exclude the validity of any criticism from the get-go, there can only be "hatred".

OK, so let's stop derailing this thread into personal attacks and arguments. If you hadn't noticed this is a topic about whether the devs post on here.

Yes they do, but they do not discuss aspects of the game. They also read these forums as can be seen from their names appearing at the bottom of the page in those "viewing the forum". However, when a thread turns to disrespectful comments and personal attacks they are going to switch off and go look at something of value.

Back on topic and stop trying to score points - it doesn't was here.

I do not believe it has anything to do with being on a high horse but more about finding the time to sift through the noise on these forums.

Yes, they do.

lol you sound like a proud father talking about there child then again the character creator was your doing

Vsions, you're awesome and probably my favourite dev.

Some posts have been wished into the cornfield. Continuing to post off-topic bickering is going to lead to warnings and suspensions for all involved, if I have to go and clean this thread up again - especially after Rohugh has already intervened just a few posts up.

very rarely, speaking of which, I haven't seen Vsions in a while... :mellow:

THAT is the one thing that truly matters :thumbsup:

I often check the bottom of the forum page to see whenever there happens to be an orange or red name that's in italics. That means that person is writing a post somewhere. Then I F5 a lot of times until it's no longer in italics, and after that I look at the top-most threads for that person's name in the "Last post Info" column to find their post I've already preempted 3 of Gstaff's posts this way.

After spending some time in the Skyrim forums I can understand why they may not post here. It's insanity here.

Man, people will take any topic and just go all crazy! Thanks mods for keeping things on topic.

I think the question has been answered well enough. They do read them occasionally, and they sometimes reply. Sadly not to the degree that I have seen with other developers who get really connected to their fanbase...but that's okay..that is Beth's choice.

I will still enjoy Skrim.

Yeah I'm sure that's the case, there is only so much feedback you can process or use, otherwise the game will never get done. And that's fine if you just using it early on in each games development, or after the game is done, so you can get an idea what the fans liked and didn't like for the next one, or see what kind of mods the community comes up with. But I'm talking about those that NEVER use their forums. Or used it when the first went up and never used it again.

See, it's important to know: During crunch time, what is the percentage of different types of food that Bethesda provides them. Like is it a good mix? Or mostly pizza...or chinese take-out...or sandwiches...or...? AND! What kinda drinks? Hmmm, Rockstars, Monsters and Red Bulls? Or regular soda? Or juice and coffee? Ooooor, do they make the programmers, artists, etc. buy their own stuff...hmmm... :drool:

Haha, okay, it's not important to know, but it's an idle curiosity. When I was an I.T. person at a video game development company it was interesting (and sort of sad) to see what work conditions were like... I think they weren't managed well, because it seemed like their employees practically lived at the office in a perpetual state of crunch time during projects. And they got fed a ton of junk/fast food. But at least they got to play video games and watch movies sometimes to unwind.