I'm not sure what I really want, but I know I don't like oblivions system, I have no problem reading the dialog instead of hearing it, but the other way around is annoying, if you read faster than they talk and want to speed it up, it sounds so weird.
Though thats not my major issue. I don't like being freezed in time and zoomed in on the lipsync. I'd rather have the ability to move around while I talk to NPCs, with either a system where I can say whatever I want with a chat key, ask them questions that they might not now, where they probably reply with "what is that?".
Anyways, I don't mind a dialog system like in Morrowind with numbers but with voice acting, so I can move around freely while I talk to the NPC, or just leave without a goodbye.

Yeah, grunts are fine, they are mostly there to recognize you race, and that you are taking damage.

I prefer Morrowind's system, but voice acting is, in my opinion, expected nowadays, so maybe some combination of the two?

I have no control over it, so whatever.

I hear that!

... Actually. I read that. :wink_smile:

What about: The same way you interact with people in the real world? You look in their direction and say something, starting with their name or other identifying information ("Hey sweetie ...") if there is a chance they might not notice you or if there are other people present who might think you're talking to them.

Imagine that, you can even talk to more than one person at once this way! And you can do so doing other stuff, like walking! Fascinating, isn't it?

What on earth are you on about?

Well, you wanted to know how you can interact with NPCs besides clicking on them, I told you.

I played a lot of ArmA 2: Operation Arrowhead recently, and it's done really nicely there. If you're near someone (or some object you can interact with, like a door or a vehicle), middle-mouse-clicking lets you do whatever is the default action, scrolling the mouse wheel lets you chose what to do while the action is still going on around you. For people on your team, you don't need to be near - [SPACE] selects them all and lets you chose what to say to them; whatever you're looking at at this moment shows you specific additional actions available for that object, like "mount that" for unmanned vehicles, "attack this target" for hostiles, and "move there" if you're looking at a ground somewhere. With [F1] through [F12] you can select one or more specific guys and give them orders, quickly. You can hit [DEL], then specify additional orders, from "I'm hit, medic!" through "regroup", "change formation", "change equipment", to grouping them in teams, which allow you to give orders even more efficiently. All this is also available through some other shortcuts, whatever works best for you. All of this is also depending on who you selected, and what you are looking at.

Of course, this is an FPS, so dialogue isn't its strongest point. Still, a few facts it does damn right:

* The action around you never stops. Not when you're talking to someone, not when you're looking at a map (which you can also use to issue orders), not when you're changing equipment.
* All it takes for the game to recognise you wants to do something to some item or person is for you to look at this item or person. No need to click it, just look and chose an action.
* For people on your team (your "companions", basically), you can talk to them without looking at them, and they respond accordingly. Want them to use an MG? Look at that MG, pick your man, and two-three buttons later you're telling them "Bravo, man this machine gun", with him responding "On my way." or some such, and doing it.
* They also inform you about important stuff all by themselves, without running up to you and telling it to your face - "I'm under fire.", "I've been hit, need help", "Unknown tank, 500m, 3 o'click.", stuff like this.

Are you advocating all of this for NPCs? I mean it would be nice but companions have never been much of a focus in Elder Scroll games. Heck all quest NPCs in Oblivion were invulnerable anyway. I guess it would be nice to have a more sophisticated system for situations where, say, you're leading a battalion of guys - which is a very plausible scenario in faction quests - but I highly doubt there's going to be that level of devotion in the next game.

As for non-pausing dialog: maybe, but only if it gets automatically cut off upon something happening.

Yeah, basically what I'd like to have the dialogue system work similar to this. Not just for leading people, but in general - NPC recognising you're talking to them simply because you are watching them, or started the dialogue with their name, for example; and dialogue which can not only be interrupted (by you, the NPCs you're talking with, or the circumstances) but also which can be continued after the interruption. Also, dialogue working like any other object interaction, interface-wise.

Imagine situations like this:

You're walking down the street and some NPCs walk by. One of them utters a greeting in your direction; you have the option of hitting space and selecting some kind of greeting yourself (which would make you slightly more liked by this NPC, but possibly had other effects on the other NPCs in the vicinity witnessing it), or ignoring the NPC. If you talk to the NPC, he might stop walking and say "Can I have a moment of your time?", and a list of possible answers appears on the left side of your screen, with stuff like "Yes, what is it?", "No, sorry.", "Bugger off." and so on. You can stop yourself and pick any line, talking with the NPC while others pass by, or you can ignore him or her and walk away (the list disappears) or you can right-click to ignore it at once (important if you need the dialogue/action menu for other stuff right now).

You target some NPC, press [SPACE] to open up that action menu (like you would to open/lock pick a door, use alchemist equipment, mount a horse and so on), pick "(Ask about ...)", upon which a menu with "(specific person)", "(place)", and so on appears, move your view to the left to point at a house nearby, when the additional context sensitive option "this house" appears, click on that, and you character asks that NPC "Excuse me, what is this red building?" and the NPC knows which one you're talking about, and that you asked him or her, and can possibly answer.

You get into some crowded space and a bunch of NPCs block your way. You target the middle one and hit [SPACE] again, picking "Please move aside." The NPC looks in your direction and bawls out "Don't talk to me, you dirty Orc.", so you hit [SPACE] again and pick another option, this time an action - "[Push aside]". Your char does so, and the NPC thinks better than to pick a fight with you. Still, you just made an enemy.

You walk up to an NPC in an empty, dark side street, hit [SPACE] and say "Give me ..." and as a second option "... all your money and valuables." The NPC looks at you and answers "I don't think so.", while looking around if any help is nearby. You draw your weapon - still in dialogue mode - and new options appear, "Give me your stuff or I'll cut you down." The NPC, now visibly more nervous, do as he's told, but as you run away from the scene you hear him screaming "Help! A thief! Somebody stop him!" behind you. Some NPCs you see when you approach the main street seem to react to that, others pretend not to have heard it.

You walk into a bar, and see an NPC you know, Olaf the Grumpy, sitting across the room drinking. So you hit [SPACE] - without targeting anything or anyone, pick "(Call a person...)", then "Olaf the Grumpy", and then "Greetings.". You char says "Hello, Olaf!" into the room. Olaf, still on the other side of the room, looks up in your direction and shouts "Hello old buddy! Come here, sit down, have a drink."

I would like a Fallout or Mass Effect style dialogue.

I don't always want to talk polite to people. I want the option to intimidate or use skill checks for dialogue options.

You can't avoid voice acting in a next-gen game. But it is possible to have much dialogue AND voice acting. Bioware does this.

Maybe - you're right - however this poll shows many players enjoy text - and unless you can make requests for info and have multiple choices in dialogue then I think the game becomes more of a linear action adventure game than the open ended story filled worlds that Bethesda creates for TES

I can't see text disappearing - I just see an opportunity for the developers to more elegantly implement it.

meh, poll in a niche forum means nothing when compared to Industry standards.


There's next to no doubt that any future installment will be fully voiced, save for in-game books and sub-titles. Heck, I can imagine in a few gens(game gens) in-game book text even becomes voiced by some classic sounding old dude lol. (or by morgan freeman preferably)


Change is scary, but needed and inevitable. Just hope they hire good V-Actors.

You keep saying industry standards but what are these supposed industry standards? Some sort of quality convention like IS0 9000 - there are no industry standards for gaming - except an ideal for developers to produce good entertainment and producers to maximise profits

You can't have a fully voiced RPG - there has to be options which are text based so you can role play the character you wish to portray - otherwise as i said before it is an action adventure game and will be linear in style.

I'm not saying there will be less dialogue just that text is necessary - and I don't believe the world is heading voiced dialogue only - cellphones are prolific but the most common usage for them is not voice but texting as the preferred instant medium.

If you are going to state categorically Bethesda is tied to an industry standard show me a link to what it is

This, and I played the hell out of Morrowind before Oblivion was released.

I loved the voice acting in Oblivion and Fallout but I always hated how when you wanted to talk to someone, everything stopped and the camera zoomed in on them. It seemed so awkward for some reason.

The rub here? Games like The Elder Scrolls are typically played by - guess what - niche players. The standard "casual gamer" isn't interested in open sandbox RPGs like this. They're too busy playing Halo or Mario Kart.

I 'disagree' with you by a whopping 1% (one percent).

You said it all!

Hmm. While I like having more dialog options that was in Morrowind, I'm going to have to side with Oblivion on this one. Except maybe they need to spend more in the voice acting and improve both quality and quantity. But I suppose I'll be happy in that department either way.

It's true that Bioware has tons of dialogue and voice acting but they aren't fully open world games, meaning Bioware can put more resources into beefing up their dialogue and paying people to voice them.


Also whoever keeps touting that industry standard line should stop. There's no "standard", if Bethesda could make more money appealing solely to their fan base, a niche market, by doing mostly text and dialogue trees then they would do that over wasting time adding in VA to conform to some imaginary standard.

The last 2(3 if you count out-side studio) Bethesda games have mostly been Voiced when it comes to dialog, and have sold/scored very well. It's not just an industry/rpg norm anymore, but seems to have become a Bethesda norm as well. Maybe "norm" was the word I'm looking for and "standard" may have been a bad choice, sorry for that.

If TES5 had text dialog (not talking about subtitles) you would color me extremely surprised.




agreed, I think they can smooth that out a bit.

There's no way in hell Bethesda can make profit only by appealing to the fans. They have to catch the entire market and make the market want to play the next game as well. Without voic-acting I believe casual gamers might be put of by it, leading to less money for bethesda.

The "casual gamers" are playing FarmVille, Bejeweled and Solitaire. Some of them even The Sims. Those aren't Bethesda's target demographic, and never were.

There gropu classified as "casual gamers" is bigger than those you mentioned. It includes those who play games but they don't care what games they play as long as it's fun. That's a crowd Bethesda needs to cath if they want to grow and be able to continue making games.

@Booheads

The last 2(3 if you count out-side studio) Bethesda games have mostly been Voiced when it comes to dialog, and have sold/scored very well. It's not just an industry/rpg norm anymore, but seems to have become a Bethesda norm as well. Maybe "norm" was the word I'm looking for and "standard" may have been a bad choice, sorry for that.

It's cool. What I meant is that it's more profitable to include something like VA right now because it appeals to a larger audience. despite how the niche Elder Scroll fanbase might feel about it. If they lost that larger audience then they would go back to text if that's what pleased their base. A series like ES can be considered art, but as a company they need to know how to please the consumers and right now, putting in VA is doing just that.


You missed my point.