The Lore FAQ and the Imperial Library are great ways to read about a specific event, character or concept, but I've found myself having to do endless cross-referencing and additional reading just to puzzle out the exact (or even approximate) meaning of many of the terms and names used in those sources, and in this forum. I'm also frequently coming across multiple names or terms for single characters and beings, sometimes with no obvious in-lore explanation or context.

Kalpa, mundus, CHIM, varliance. Aedra, daedra, god, saint, divine, spirit...

Tiber Septim (for example) seems to have about a dozen names, few of which I understand the appropriate context or even timeline of.

I'm very fond of the intoxicating complexity and ambiguity of the deeper layers of Elder Scrolls lore, so this isn't a criticism so much as a question: Does an exhaustive dictionary of terms exist somewhere, and if not, what are you loremasters' feelings about such a thing? Are there too many differing interpretations of a given term for this to be practical, or would its existence lessen the lore's mystery and the almost in-character way it seems to be presented (as books and scattered accounts)?

Lastly, if none of the above apply, would any of you consider compiling such a thing, or at least clarifying a few of the more obscure terms I mentioned above?

Thanks!

if you need information on in-game characters look in the http://www.uesp.net/

The UESP isn't very well organized for that sort of thing, unfortunately, even for in-game characters if you don't know exactly what you're looking for.

Fearless Hero, To my knowledge, nothing like that exists. But it'd be worthwhile to check the Imperial Library.

If there's nothing, I think it should definitely be done. Obscure things like kalpa and CHIM and enantiomorph can be VERY obtuse and difficult to understand, even without a 'language barrier' of esoteric terminology.
I'd love to try and help clarify some of them for you, but I don't think I'm qualified.

I will say though, that Tiber Septim has less than a dozen names.
In one version, his name was Talos when he was a Nord general and conqueror, and was imperialized to Tiber Septim when he became emperor. Then upon ascending to godhood, he was referred to as Talos again.
There's also this idea of the "oversoul", (or something, I'm tired and my brain isn't working optimally, this is when a dictionary would come in handy) that associates him with Zurin Arctus, his battle mage, and Ysmir/Wulfarth/Shor (an aspect of Lorkhan and a Nordic hero/king that I gather might be the Underking).
It's that last association that is why you'll sometimes see Talos called Ysmir, like in the UESP entry for him I believe.

The relationship between those three is complicated, and one of the most interesting dynamics in the lore; you should check it out since I'm sure I mangled this explanation.

Yeah i know, but UESP is the best for these kind of thing IF you know what you are looking for

@the2crow
Thanks! Yes, I'll keep looking at the Imperial Library (and the UESP; thanks for the link themp3!) in the meantime, but without remembering muliple previous articles, any one piece of writing seems to contain something I'm uncertain of... I haven't been reading [the lore] for long, though, so maybe I just need to persevere.

In short (since I don't have much time):

-what to define? Things like CHIM and enantiomorph are a given, but "god, saint, divine, spirit" are sort of common sense. Or are they? Similarly, obscure words with real-world meaning.
-some definitions not very definite. There are a hundred ways to define a daedra, and each is going to contradict or miss something.

Check out the made up http://imperial-library.info/ForumArchives/Made_Up_Word_Round_Up.html.

Like idea, not sure how to impliment.

Individually "god, saint," etc are common sense, but at times they seem to apply to aedra and daedra interchangably, and at others don't seem appropriate for one or the other. I think I'm getting confused by "in-world" interpretations of concepts, as well (to the Altmer[?], I think aedra are "our ancestors" and not gods; daedra "not our ancestors," and certainly not gods, but in the Empire aedra seem to be seen as divine beings [gods] and yet so is Tiber/Talos, who was definitely NOT an aedra, as far as I can tell, but ought to be a saint). So it's not just the individual words, but when, how, and to who they should be applied.

I am having some luck just searching the 'net for specific terms now, though - I see "kalpa" translates into aeon in the real world, which makes perfect sense in the context I've seen it used (but depending on how literal some of the metaphorical/spiritual implications become in the TES universe).



Okay, that thread's full of absolute gems - I wonder if you guys can't convince MK to do another Made Up Word Round Up thread sometime. My favourites so far are Orichalc, and Mnemolic magic and the "Star Orphans", who I guess dodge Alduin's world-eating and persist between kalpas(?).

Thanks.

Zeph tried some of this a long time ago (2004) with Volume III of his http://www.imperial-library.info/content/zephs-tes-treasury. Unfortunately, it is missing a lot of terms since it hasn't been touched in years. It basically contains items from Morrowind.

I forgot about and love how all my posts back then were "durrrr" and contributed absolutely nothing. Oh wait, I still do that, this post included. Ahem.

CHIM wasn't talked about all that much in there, surprisingly. Then again, that was back when everybody had that hard-on for the Disappearance.

Anyway, CHIM is a concept, or perhaps the concept, otherwise known as the fifth Walking Way. The realization that you are everything and everything is you, which makes you everything and everywhere, yet this would make you undifferentiated from everything (you can't tell everything apart from everything, right?), as all forms of measurement and therefore perception requires a vector, a point of origin, from which to compare something to in order to make it tangible, and in the belief-fueled dream-reality of TES, tangibility is reality and vice-versa, and thus you would be unmeasurable and therefore undefined, which makes you go poof. Wait, that's zero-sum. CHIM is when you understand all that stuff yet also realize that you do actually exist and not just (necessarily) as a reactionary product, or you are a noumenon in the truest sense, and, again, you realized that [you] ARE AND [you] ARE ALL WE, which means that with all that taken together you then get to be like a mad scientist playing around with reality as far as you care to see fit, rather than kicking your own ass into dust by the way of believing you are unsubstantiated. Or it goes something like that, anyway.

So CHIM is essentially hacking the universe through a kind of paradoxical combination of extreme narcissism and extreme ego-crucifiction. I have to wonder if any being who achieved CHIM wouldn't actually be insane, and its power would only exist in his head - but his total belief in and acceptance of CHIM meaning he'd never realise it was only in his own head. Or, CHIM is a state way beyond that, and you'd already have overcome all the pitfalls of delusion on the journey there.

Is it implied that any character in TES ever achieved CHIM? Vivec? I guess by its very nature, conflict, conquest, wealth, relationships, etc would cease to be necessary or desirable, so we'd probably never hear from such a character again.

First sentence: ehhh, kind-of-sort-of, seems ever so slightly off though. Let me think about that. Second sentence: didn't I tell you that belief = realization = reality? Mind you, simply understanding/knowing alone doesn't equate to outright belief.

Find the Trial of Vivec on TIL. It concludes with Vivec achieving CHIM. As for that second part, they may or may not be a necessity... or maybe they are, since you might not be able to be everything if you don't even know what that is. But you can bet those things would be desired. "Forever hallucinating and falling into love".

Edit: Just made numerous tiny edits over the past several minutes for your inconvenient convenience.

I guess I was thinking of the you [are], and not the you [are all we], in the sense that you'd be (and so feel, know) everything, but not necessarily carry that over to the [you] who would be doing the needing and desiring. But I realise splitting the two is in itself probably misunderstanding CHIM.

I'm clearly out of my depth as far as contributing anything goes, but thanks for the further explanation, and the insight.

Dare I ask... Varliance?

Given its paradoxical nature, seeing a split is understandable, but there isn't one. Or maybe, there isn't one, and at the same time, there is one. Or even, there is an I AM, an I ARE ALL WE, and an I AM AND I ARE ALL WE: components and the synergy thereof (or even components, combination, and synergy...?!) all recognized and real.

Also, thinking about when you said that someone who has achieved CHIM might not care for material things, et cetera: don't confuse CHIM with Nirvana. At a very quick glance, CHIM might look like Nirvana, but once you take notice of the part where you selfishly retain your identity, you realize that CHIM is a 180 turn away from Nirvana. Someone who believed Nirvana in the TES universe would probably just zero-sum.

Yeah, that's where I went wrong initially, but reading the Trial of Vivec, he seems to combine great dignity and humility with incredible selfishness and a desire for revenge, which I guess is part of why Vivec was able to achieve CHIM at all. Azura knew what it was, but presumably the concept would go way over a daedra's head.

I thought it was an archaic word meaning something akin to "spirit", but apparently I am completely wrong and simply made that up somehow.

Google finds it nowhere on the internet but in reference to TES, or as a misspelling of "variance", and I can't find it in the Oxford English Dictionary... So...

Remember varla stones?

I never figured out what "varliance" was supposed to mean. Did MK ever address that in the word round up? I forget. It's mentioned more than once in the context of Umaril and his lieutenants and the methods they used to craft weapons to harm Pelinal.

Seems like a contraction of Varla and Valiance. Varla stones attract/contain/are made of magic. Perhaps from Aetherius. Valiance is generally use in relation to trouble so the magic that enables a person to face difficulty.

Also consider the context of: It's obviously happened before, so sabers sharp, and may your varliance shine bright.

Varliance is the adjective of "Varla." Why was this form chosen? Proweler mentions valiance, but consider some other words that end the same: radiance, brilliance, allegiance, luxuriance. The point is that it sounds like a good thing.

That makes sense. Also, it's strongly implied that Pelinal could not be harmed by normal weapons made from iron and the like. He's Divine so that's logical. Undead and Daedra have a similar strength. Varliance would be some means of magically imbuing weapons with Varla energy, which holds powerful enchantments. Such weapons could indeed wound Pelinal badly.

So varliance could be seen as one's inner magickal energy or spirit (to an extent approaching divinity)... radiating, resonating, emanating.

Just remember that especially when you get into a context to use 'varliance', Light and Magick are virtually identical.