that Talos is a god in the Faeruan Pantheon? He is the leader of the Deities of Fury, which include himself (God of Storms), Umberlee (goddess of the oceans), Auril (Goddess of Winter), and Malar(God of the Hunt/Werebeasts, except for Crocolisks, which Set, a Mulhorandi god has the portfolio of). When I first started (with Morrowind), my starting Imperial Legion quests only cemented my suspicion of the Tamriel version of Talos being an evil god, like the Faeruanan version. It wasn't until I decided to join the Imperial Cult (which took me forever, because I distrust any cults, but I wanted to play through it completely, so I had to join it) that I finally realized the only thing that the Tamriel Talos has in common with the Faeruan Talos is the name, a title (Stormcrown/Storm Lord), and they're both gods).

IRL, Talos is also the name of a bronze giant from Greek Mythology.

Tiber Septim used a brass golem to conquer Tamriel. Go figure.

The imperial cult isn't a "cult" in that sense, its merely the missonary branch of those gothic church owners in cryodiil.

It's still a cult. Any religion is a cult, it just depends on how well they can buff the exterior to make it seem more 'organized'.

true, but its not a cult in the sense of little commune in india where your stuff mysteriously dissapears, Which is what I believe he meant by the word cult.

Well, having your main focus of faith be a man who mantled, transcended, and then seemingly disappeared from any true divine duties other than mere conquest; one who could be considered half-dragon and yet simply a mere human who got lucky at the same time is a bit more illogical than your shoes being taken from you by a horned lynx or a half-naked midget in some far eastern town of 25.

Agreed, but whats important in regard to the word cult is what the op meant when he typed it.

Absolutely nothing about the word cult is important.

But I guess you could always say that TES borrows from many real life 'cults', religions, ideals, prophecies, whatever you want to say.

Well, they also call him Stormcrown, and I remember that Talos in Shadows of Amn had something to do with storms.

Actually, a "cult" -- as used in the sense that it was in Morrowind, in reference to the Imperial Cult -- is quite literally a "religious tradition", or the rites and rituals associated with a faith. Its second meaning, as a small religious group performing dark incantations in a dirty basemant somewhere, is the one that we most associate with the word; however, one could also make reference to the "Judaic Cult" or the "Christian Cult" to describe the rituals of sacrifice and temple worship that define those two faiths.

Right, which is what I origonally said...?

No. You said:



This was using the second definition -- that of a small, superstitious, narrowminded group of weirdos doing weird things in a dirty basemant in a pathetic search for meaning in their lives -- while, at the same time, expanding it in order to make a cheap dig at religion. The definition used in Morrowind, as previously mentioned, refers to the ritualistic traditions within a religion.

There's no problem with being wrong, by the way, as long as you admit it and move on. But you won't, because this is the Internet, and that'd be too much to ask for.

ON TOPIC: Though many seem to deride this topic because it compares Tamriel to a presumably inferior fantasy setting, I think that it may provide an interesting etymology to the name "Talos" for Tiber Septim. After all, the name dates back to Daggerfall, before Tamriel had developed any pretenses of being anything more than a clever DnD setting with some juicy realpolitik and magic -- thus, it's not entirely inconceivable that the name may have been an homage to Faerun. After all, the other names in the pantheon had similar "joke" origins, often as plays on the names of devs and such.

Ooooh, no no. I got you. I wasn't meaning in the small basemant sense, either. I was meaning to say how you put it, where Christianity could be called the Christian Cult. Which is why I never had a problem with the Imperial Cult. It sounds a lot cooler than the Imperial Missionary To Try And Steal Faith From The Other Religions.

Seems what's being said here on the one side is that a 'cult' is a sub-section of a 'religion' - no matter that the cult represents a small or large percentage of the total worshipers. Generally I define religion as 'res ligio' = 'connecting all things'. On that basis one cannot discount an interpretation of the word cult as necessarily diminutive in terms of the whole.

And on the other that the word 'cult is another word for an entire religion.

So a subsection or offshoot (however large of small) of a huge religion can be a cult as seen by others in that religion, but a vast religion could not be described as a cult by outsiders except in a perjorative and likely innacurate sense.

It somehow seems the Cult of Talos is an offshoot of the Imperial Cult, which is in itself at the same time (Dragonbreaks allowing) or at a certain point was then subsumed into the Cult of Talos (swallows its own tail) and that both are offshoots of or additions to the Nine Divines - or someone does not like the Imperials (likely the mer that) and has found a way to diminish the Imperial religion in the eyes of its own prospective members. I suppose there are mer on the Elder Council?

All in all the facts as given generally seem to twist according to the perspective of the original and subsequent writers - something we are all aware of, but that many often have trouble delivering clearly in their own posts and threads on this forum because we seldom roleplay our responses.

Strangely enough a very large number of the Loreful texts in-game, that are actually written by a third party and based on received information are spread around as absolute truth in this Forum, even when the text itself warns the reader that it is not first-hand.

Anyways, hopefully I can leave you to enjoy your word-game in peace now

Putty, you're imagining connotations for his words. Try not to do that.

Not really.

Just look at the context of the statement AP took issue with, and it's pretty hard to draw any other conclusion than the one he did. Even if it was supposedly mistaken to do so.

Anyway, this is all spinning even further off topic. :wacko:

I thought the Imperial Cult was called such because, in Morrowind, it's a very minor religious group that fits the common definition of 'cult'.

:turtle:

The Talos group in the Gnisis Legion scenarios certainly fit that description from everyone's point of view - however I've been leaning towards the thought of all the religions being cults because the Gods exist and each race has a different perspective/take on what appears to be substantially the same stuff.

If the Imperials call the Nine Divines a cult then that would fit as their recognition and acceptance of the overall realities.

In Daggerfall people mainly talked of the Nine Divines without worrying what the Imperials thought - so on that basis you might say that the Imperials are trying to create a universal acceptance through modesty.

Guys...I can solve this "cult" thing really easily.

It's referred to that in Morrowind because Temple Worship is still the main religion during TES 3.

ALSO

Each sub-religion within the main religion of the Divines is a "cult". "Cult of Talos", "Cult of Mara", "Cult of Akatosh" etc.

Possibly, but there's actually quite the following, though outnumbered by the Tribunal for sure. Also, they wouldn't call themselves the Imperial Clut just because they were outside of Cyrodiil. That would be like Mulslims calling their religion The Psalm of Islam outside of the Middle East. Wich would make me giggle, no doubt.

Not really, no. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Imperial_Cult.