Alaisiagae

Well, you said Azura "requires their [worshippers] devotion." I took that to mean a requirement, on her part, for the act of worshipping. Now that I think about it, I realize that it might have been meant in the context that she requires --- as in, requires her worshippers to provide worship. Or someting.

Nevermind me, I must've missed some of my meds today :wacko:

Sorry, she wants worshipers and requires devotion of them. But realize that the desires of a daedra are almost forces of nature, not simple tendencies.

In this case, she'd see Dagoth Ur as a far bigger threat to worship of her than the Tribunal.

It's a dnd left over. We tried to take it behind the shed once but it looked so sad with it's naive puppy eyes.


Urgh, no Tribunal does it to. Shutup prow.

Hence... the... Nerevarine....


Several dozen of them.

That was a poignant moment in "Morrowind", when you learn the stories of the False Incarnates. Each one was a person with hopes and ambitions, discarded by Azura without a thought (presumably) when each found they lacked a quality: military knowledge, for example.

The Nerevarine was a pawn of both Azura and the Empire, which is why I assume he or she left for Akavir after destroying Dagoth Ur. He or she had cut the strings and was off to explore a new land that had (unrealistically, in my opinion) been ignored for centuries.

But they all died because they got in over their heads. None of them even reached the Cavern of the Incarnate anyway.

But they all ended up there, since they were devotees to Azura. What, you think Azura had nothing to do with any of them and surrounding foyadas are like a Ghostbusters vacuum attuned to prophetic souls?

Uh, no, I just was saying that Azura didn't abandon them to their deaths.

There was one quest from Azura re Sheo and other quests via other sources ... not trying to nitpick.




In some respects can agree with you paw-prints, but .. not sure who the wrong set of mortals you are referring to is?

to crimson Paladin et al:
You might say that Azura used a combination of the monkeys on typewriters and personal guidance techniques - and bingo - finally.

I think you have to accept that the Daedra Princes all interfere as much as they want according to their natures and desires - not just by talking to mortals, but they also have their favorite items that they loan out - right? And why not? Arguing from a point of view that questions the right of Daedra to 'associate with' and 'interfere' does not really go very far because it is not the fact of association, but the intents, purposes and effects of such interference that are the real point of contention. daedra have the same right to follow their natures that other creatures do - they just have to be prepared (and are) to deal with the fallout. I feel those of you that are not accepting of this have allowed yourselves to be manoeuvered into a certain lack of common sense on this matter.

It is no more wrong for Azura to interfere or act according to her nature than it is for the Great Dragon to interfere is it? So what remains is politics.

That having been said are the realms / spheres of influence of the different Daedra Princes discrete or do they overlap? Are they complimentary or opposed to each other?

Again look at Vivec - who is he claiming to Anticipate? Azura? I thought he 'Anticipated' Mephala - so if any Daera Prince had a beef with Vivec personally re territory that would be Mephala ... oops no Mephala in this ... so that is not the issue either.

As for Azura 'not leaving it at that and getting involved with the wrong mortals after - I'm not sure what you are getting at ... care to expand?

It's really simple. Azura with the knowledge and tacit or otherwise support of a wide variety of Gods and Daedric Princes 'bred' a Nerevarine - whose actual purpose was to deal with Dagoth Ur.

Mental Health Warning: the following summation could damage your mind - do not read it without using the proper safety measures.

In the simplest of modern terms and political correctness:
A boy called Dagoth Ur was making a mess of everyone's playground and the classrooms at a local school - scattering Ash all over the place, feeding drugs to peoples' pets and wild animals and letting them loose to attack school members and the general public and recruiting gangs of pupils to distribute drugs and generally terrorise the other pupils and even staff. He was being a very naughty boy!

Also he and the school caretakers had participated in a plot to kidnap a pupil and were robbing him of his pocketmaney - using a knife and a hammer to torture the location of monies out of their victim.

The school caretakers were really quite upset about all this - even though they had participated in the kidnap themselves. They were spending all the stolen cash trying to cope with the mess that Dagoth Ur was making so that they would not lose their jobs and the cash was running out.

That Dagoth Ur was causing so much upset they just about decided they had enuf. This was getting to be more than they could cope with and they were getting to the end of their tethers. They agreed that a specialist would have to be called in to deal with matters.

So even though they knew their own assed might be exposed they did a bit of string pulling and a member of the administration was persuaded to hire on an outside firm of private security people to do a bit of pest control, drug law enforcement and suchlike, generally clean up the area. After scrutinising the specs of various companys and a series of on site demos by various applicants a firm was engaged with the support of the caretakers and the job was done.

It just so happened it was the company owned by one caretaker's ex husband. Sadly the caretaker who was previously married to the company owner finally went bananas due to the enormous strain (and quite possibly guilt given the cost of the divorce settlement) and murdered one of her innocent colleagues - an dmaybe the remaining caretaker had something to do with that- who knows?

So anyways, apparently with great regret, the remaining school caretaker stood by while this crazed caretaker attacked the representative of the new company and watched as she lost her life in the struggle as she forced the company operative defended himself.

The remaining caretaker and the member of staff who had commissioned the company were agreed that they had made the correct decisions and were saddened by the death of the insane caretaker which was probably unavoidable and indeed pragmatic. Besides, the remaining caretaker was exhausted by the whole business and was ready to go on holiday or maybe even retire.

See if you can fill in the names of the characters.

Yeah.

I think some people might be thinking Azura has more influence than she really does. From what I gather (and I could very well be wrong), she's more like a pen-pal that sometimes sends videos of herself to you. In other words, she's not a puppeteer. She doesn't lead people along and then "abandon" them. She was never really with them in the first place to qualify as abandoning (leaving) them. I suppose the issue with the false incarnates is... did they have Nerevar's soul, or were they self-deluded non-Nerevar-souled people, thinking they could pull the proverbial sword from the stone?

Either way, there isn't much Azura can do; she can't really manipulate people without their consent, so to speak. She can tell them stuff, but she can't magically compell people to do things (as in, taking away free will).

- If the False Incarnates had Nerevar's soul, then it seems that the success of the incarnates is rather dependent on their personal skills. You can instruct and teach them everything they need to know, but that doesn't make them competent; Azura can only do so much, and then it is up to mortals: isn't that what the Daedric Princes find fascinating about interacting with the Mundus?

- If they were just deluded mortals thinking they were the Nerevarine... then that's their problem that they croaked. :shrug:

Disclaimer: I haven't played MW's main quest in a long while, so I might have forgotten details that contradict what I just said. In other words: there is a distinct possibility that my assumptions about certain things are incorrect.

I seem to remember a description of the relation of Daedra and mortals as between the hunters and the hunted. But then that was the word according to a different Daedric Prince. Though it is interesting that Azura's pet creature in Morrowind is the Twighlight that is highly predatory.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Spirit_of_the_Daedra. But that seems to be for the lesser daedra.

yes that's it! ty - long time since I read that.

This is where I got up to when I felt I ought to ask a simple question: Separate from individual deeds are all Daedra necessarily evil? I'll give you Byzantine - and agree that you can assign terms to Daedra individually according to their deeds as you go along. and yes that document is definitely damming - but which Daedra wrote it?

Correct me if I am wrong, but much of our more detailed past experience of their nature came from Battlespire - in which they have their plots and so forth, but then that was the Daedric Prince of War's team. And it appears that the 'Jumping Demon' wants to destroy or return to their proper place/s all the bits of mortal reality that he messed around with previously so that he can go free? And 'Oblivion/the Gates gives us another big slice of Dagon and his machinations.

Otherwise Daedra are summoned and controlled, usually against their will, by people (read conjurers) who generally are breaking the local laws to do so and often have not nice motives or really do not care what the Daedra feels. And once summoned how do the Daedra get back home? Well it does seems that unless it is a limited summoning such as a spell they have to be killed before they can get home, and they are frequently summoned to do someone's fighting fo rhim/her - so I am not surprised that they fight a lot ...

The real nature of the Daedra and Aedra seems to be at some time Change and Order or Being and Unbeing etc. They are presented to us as opposites and all kinds of tags are applied to them that appear contradictory - and we keep getting told that when the Aedra kill that is Good and when the Daedra do that is necessarily bad - when in fact it does seem that they are separate pantheons?

Well what if the place of Azura in the Daedric 'Pantheon' is as a balance to the other Daedra's actual natures - and that she is necessarily virtuous in nature and empathic by that necesity?

There has been little effort given here to defining the Gods and Aedra and Tribunal as were and Earthbones as are etc in terms of their relationship to their shared reality/s. Could it be that the mundane reality of Tamriel requires a balance and that when one set of 'God-beings' comes in it shoves another set out? Or requires that a further set arrive or be born to balance them? Read lots ...

Could it be that what The Tribunal did was upset the balance by creating itself/existing in some way and so reality had no option but to remove them? ... and that Azura's concern is simply with the ramifications of the ignorant & selfish actions taken by the Tribunal. Essentailly it is her nature to balance things. Maybe she can see the Chimer/Dunmer following the path of the Dwemer and 'discorporating' themselves or some such and she is working oh so very hard to prevent that?