Did Bethesda make ANY attempt to make the NPCs react to the : V - Skyrim

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:42 am

I agree with some of this. The DB thing was ridiculous. How can that not be important enough to talk about? But I always have banter from the villagers about me killing a dragon, or being the leader of the the Companions.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:03 pm

it really depends on the text. my guess is that people calling u that new recruit from the companions when ur the leader is a bug. people calling u "that mage from the college" when ur the arch-mage is intentional, if a bit lazy...

also, remember that news travels slow in these times. its not like they have email or the internet...

maybe if we wait long enough, beth will patch this and we can say the newspaper was finally invented and people realized who u are

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:40 am

Criticisms cool. Lines such as "They should be absolutely ashamed..." "At least pretend you're trying" just ike me to no end, it taints what is an otherwise reasonable post. Maybe your message will come across clearer if you didn't throw in these colourful treats

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:29 am

it really depends on the text. my guess is that people calling u that new recruit from the companions when ur the leader is a bug. people calling u "that mage from the college" when ur the arch-mage is intentional, if a bit lazy...

also, remember that news travels slow in these times. its not like they have email or the internet...

maybe if we wait long enough, beth will patch this and we can say the newspaper was finally invented and people realized who u are

Oblivion had The Black Horse Courier :spotted owl: :spotted owl: :spotted owl: :spotted owl: :spotted owl:

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:35 am

Stealth AI is still as bad as Oblivion really..it just feels plain wrong that I can sneak past anybody who is staring right at my face, half the time with bright lighting. Even with 100 sneaking skill this should be next to impossible unless they're drunk or something.

But bac

The worst example is when you kill a bandit's buddy and then slam an arrow into his face. He wanders around for a bit and decides it was all a figment of his imagination... arrow sticking out of his forehead.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:56 am

I fully agree. Bethesda pisses me off with some of the things they don't do that are SO [censored] SIMPLE TO INCREASE BETTER GAMEPLAY.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:21 am

Oblivion had The Black Horse Courier :spotted owl: :spotted owl: :spotted owl: :spotted owl: :spotted owl:

have u seen the couriers walking on the roads? they dont run or have a horse. they literally just walk at a slow pace along the roads... thats it.

1 time, i actually met a courier and decided to talk to him. right as he was going through his "i dont feel like talking to u" speech, a bounty hunter came and asked me if i saw anything. then a dragon came and fire-breathed on everyone, killing them all. i laughed my a** off for a good 10 minutes.

give the courier a horse...

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:37 am

I never realized it before, but I kind of miss reading those newspapers or whatever they were called in Oblivion. The Black Horse Couriers would always give you a copy, instead of the Skyrim couriers who are always too busy to talk to you. Makes me feel way unimportant. I save the world, and you can't even say hi to me? :sadvaultboy:

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:52 am

I have a level 30 Orc who hasn't done jack with the main quest. Hasn't touched it. Recently started doing Legion quests and realized the Legionnaires have a funny way of greeting me. "Dragonborn, huh? So was it your mother or father that was the dragon?" No shouts learned. No word walls touched. No dragons slain. Nevertheless, my Orc mercenary is apparently Dragonborn. Why? Because.

So I'm thinking "holy crap that's a disappointingly pathetic amount of effort put into making the game recognize your character," because as anyone who's completed a faction quest chain (or the main quest for that matter) knows, NPCs don't exactly seem aware of your standing. But whatever, shrug it off, keep going about my day. Then while running around, I get attacked by a group of Thalmor agents. I think "wtf??" I'd never seen the Thalmor automatically be aggressive before. These came up as giant red dots and seemed to be coming straight for me. Sure enough, a fight ensues and once I kill them all off wondering why the HELL the Thalmor are attacking a random Orc mercenary, I check their bodies and find a note declaring me to be a MASSIVE THREAT to the Thalmor Dominion that must be executed. MY CHARACTER HAS NEVER INTERACTED WITH THESE GUYS IN HIS LIFE.

Skyrim has a beautiful landscape yes.
There's plenty to do, yes.

But I think Bethesda should be absolutely ashamed of the work that's put into making the world react to your character. AND the length of the faction quests. This isn't the first time it's happened, no. "Ah, you must be the Arcane University's newest recruit" is still fresh in my memory. The thing is though, those same Battlemages also recognized you as Arch-mage. The fact that they'd call you Arch-mage AND the new guy suggested that a dev simply forgot to deactivate the first line once a certain quest stage was met. It suggested that the devs ATTEMPTED to do it right, but made a mistake. This though? With my character automatically being an enemy of the Thalmor and Dragonborn? This is like they just couldn't be flipping bothered to give that event or that line of dialog a trigger. No, clearly making sure random rocky ledge #2467 looks REALLY nice was more important than adding a simple trigger.

At least PRETEND you're trying... :sadvaultboy:

You aren't dragonborn for the first 5 minutes of the game.

Sure we're going to get every voice acted character in the game to record everything as if you aren't dragonborn because you haven't started the main quest yet.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:11 am

I think Beth wrote themselves into a corner with the end of the DB questline.

The bards do sing a lovely song you killing Alduin. That's something.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:40 am

What I hate is when i'm leader of the companions, and the guards still say I fetch the mead :shakehead:

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:06 am

People criticize. Just because someone critizes doesn't mean they mean harm by it; hell, often they might be trying to help. And there's good reason to criticize here, too. NPCs reacted to player actions BETTER in Oblivion and Morrowind. Faction quest chains were BETTER in Oblivion and Morrowind. We've taken a step backwards. Taking a step backwards means they've shown they're capable of doing better, yet for some reason, aren't. Am I supposed to just shutup and sit down because Skyrim DID deliver amazing scenery? No, because I'm the costumer and I buy what I like. I like an RPG with factions and player actions having an impact on the world. If I voice this opinion, maybe Bethesda will listen and improve on that in the future. If I'm quiet and swear undying allegiance to Bethesda just because they delivered great scenery, then I bet we're only gonna be able to expect great scenery for TES 6.

Have a drink on me, mate.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:50 am

What I hate is when i'm leader of the companions, and the guards still say I fetch the mead :shakehead:

Ikr...why does Bethesda always fail at quest ending reactions?

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:40 am

There are plenty of NPC responses to your actions.

Ever since I've joined the College of Winterhold, I have NPC's commenting on my allegiance with the College. They make comments based upon my advancement throughout the guild, making reference to actions that have happened.

I see NPC's react to me killing a dragon and stealing it's soul.

NPC's react to you running through town with a drawn weapon.

NPC's make reference to the armor you have equipped.

When I used the Mace of Molag Bal, NPC's made plenty of references to that as well.

NPC's make comments about my skills.

So yes, Bethesda DID make an attempt, and any accusation to the contrary is both lazy and flat out wrong.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:30 am

I have a level 30 Orc who hasn't done jack with the main quest. Hasn't touched it. Recently started doing Legion quests and realized the Legionnaires have a funny way of greeting me. "Dragonborn, huh? So was it your mother or father that was the dragon?" No shouts learned. No word walls touched. No dragons slain. Nevertheless, my Orc mercenary is apparently Dragonborn. Why? Because.

So I'm thinking "holy crap that's a disappointingly pathetic amount of effort put into making the game recognize your character," because as anyone who's completed a faction quest chain (or the main quest for that matter) knows, NPCs don't exactly seem aware of your standing. But whatever, shrug it off, keep going about my day. Then while running around, I get attacked by a group of Thalmor agents. I think "wtf??" I'd never seen the Thalmor automatically be aggressive before. These came up as giant red dots and seemed to be coming straight for me. Sure enough, a fight ensues and once I kill them all off wondering why the HELL the Thalmor are attacking a random Orc mercenary, I check their bodies and find a note declaring me to be a MASSIVE THREAT to the Thalmor Dominion that must be executed. MY CHARACTER HAS NEVER INTERACTED WITH THESE GUYS IN HIS LIFE.

Common Legionnaires calling you dragonborn even if you have done nothing to clue them to that fact is a shame. Thalmor, on the other hand, have mages with knowledge of the arcane. Their leaders are probably aware of any prophecies concerning dragonborn, and the times seem right for them to be watching for dragonborn, particularly the Dragonborn. They probably have the means to uncover things that ordinary people can't know. In Morrowind and in Oblivion, Uriel Septim appears to have an inkling (or more) of who and what you are. It is to be expected that others might have the same gift or talent for knowing things.

Mind if I ask how exactly they force you into becoming Dragonborn? (with a spoiler tag, since this isn't spoilers forum)

They don't force you into becoming Dragonborn. You are Dragonborn. It's how the rumor got started that I'm curious about.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:31 am

We pay big bucks, and for those bugs we expect quality. What is stopping me for choosing a different game? In product priority i would drop this in the top 10 simply because it affects gameplay so much.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:48 pm

You aren't dragonborn for the first 5 minutes of the game.

Sure we're going to get every voice acted character in the game to record everything as if you aren't dragonborn because you haven't started the main quest yet.

"Go anywhere, do anything" used to mean something in a TES game. Now it's "go anywhere, do anything, as long as you do this and do it there."

I'd like you to stop playing my characters for me, Beth. I'll paint the picture, just give me a decent canvas.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:56 am

Are you saying it looks like it's a bug rather than just laziness and an "unfinished" product? I certainly hope so, but I haven't seen anything to suggest it being a bug, myself.

Nah... many things about dialogs have been overlooked... maybe beta testers did not test it enough?

For example in the middle of a war an npc gives you the same lines he gave you back in town. Would it be hard to disable the regular lines for that event?
Or a guard asking me to conjure a bed for him because i once read a +1 conjuration book with my warrior. Would it be hard to comment on my 3 highest skills or skills above 75 for example only?
Or saving the life of an npc and at the same time he gives me the line he casually gave me in his shop. Would it be hard to enable his lines only in his shop?

Also i feel that most npcs are like 2-faced hypocrites or have a personality disorder:P
They ask me to get lost, then comment on me being a dragonborn, they thank me for various things and then tell me to get lost again.

Some seem to be have never been recorded at all... for example the ones for the guilds "recognition". Recognition in general suffers... for example Ulfric or Tulious or Jarls etc after praising me seem to have completely forgotten what i did for them (through their random dialog lines). It's like the fixed dialog with the random dialog lines disagree.

Now in general npcs seem to just randomly pick lines about the skills you have and the quests you have done.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:51 pm

"I work for Belethor, over at the general goods store."
"I know, you've said that to me approximately 300 times, including 3 times in the last five minutes. I've bought hundreds of items and spent 300,000 gold at the store and you've been there while I did it."
...
"I work for Belethor, over at the general goods store."

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:14 am

Are you saying it looks like it's a bug rather than just laziness and an "unfinished" product? I certainly hope so, but I haven't seen anything to suggest it being a bug, myself.

Most of it looks like a bug to me. The problem isn't the dialogue itself; it's the dialogue's triggers. Easily fixable in a mod, and since Beth is stating that they're going to be more gung-ho with balancing and bug-fixing this time around, hopefully they'll fix it in a patch sometime in the future. Even if they don't, I reckon this will be fixed in the unofficial Skyrim patch mod for PC users.

Bandits saying "must've been the wind" to an arrow in the face, however, is a long-standing issue that I'm surprised they haven't fixed. Exact same thing that happened in Oblivion. Once an enemy takes damage, they should at least stay on alert status until they find you or they die. Really baffled that this is still happening in Skyrim.

But seriously, guys, stop acting like NPCs mis-reacting to your stuff was an intentional design decision. At the worst it was laziness; more likely it was related to the sheer amount of content vs. production pipelines. By all means we should make it clear that we want this fixed, and that we're even disappointed that it's happening, but some of the things I'm reading in this thread are just silly.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:47 pm

You guys really take the cake.

Yeah I'm sure they did this on purpose, with all the other millions of things going on they just decided to be lazy with this. Its a wonder people even make games at all these days. Bethesda are one of the few developers to provide almost ten times beyond what other games do.

Simple solution get rid of lots of the spoken dialogue, there is no way they are ever going to be able to have enough for people like you lot. Have just a greeting or something contextual that is flavour for the character then the rest just text. That way they could have a lot more dialogue, which adds to the game, and they can be more creative with it.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:28 am

Your word = my agreement.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:27 am

I have a level 30 Orc who hasn't done jack with the main quest. Hasn't touched it. Recently started doing Legion quests and realized the Legionnaires have a funny way of greeting me. "Dragonborn, huh? So was it your mother or father that was the dragon?" No shouts learned. No word walls touched. No dragons slain. Nevertheless, my Orc mercenary is apparently Dragonborn. Why? Because.

So I'm thinking "holy crap that's a disappointingly pathetic amount of effort put into making the game recognize your character," because as anyone who's completed a faction quest chain (or the main quest for that matter) knows, NPCs don't exactly seem aware of your standing. But whatever, shrug it off, keep going about my day. Then while running around, I get attacked by a group of Thalmor agents. I think "wtf??" I'd never seen the Thalmor automatically be aggressive before. These came up as giant red dots and seemed to be coming straight for me. Sure enough, a fight ensues and once I kill them all off wondering why the HELL the Thalmor are attacking a random Orc mercenary, I check their bodies and find a note declaring me to be a MASSIVE THREAT to the Thalmor Dominion that must be executed. MY CHARACTER HAS NEVER INTERACTED WITH THESE GUYS IN HIS LIFE.

Skyrim has a beautiful landscape yes.
There's plenty to do, yes.

But I think Bethesda should be absolutely ashamed of the work that's put into making the world react to your character. AND the length of the faction quests. This isn't the first time it's happened, no. "Ah, you must be the Arcane University's newest recruit" is still fresh in my memory. The thing is though, those same Battlemages also recognized you as Arch-mage. The fact that they'd call you Arch-mage AND the new guy suggested that a dev simply forgot to deactivate the first line once a certain quest stage was met. It suggested that the devs ATTEMPTED to do it right, but made a mistake. This though? With my character automatically being an enemy of the Thalmor and Dragonborn? This is like they just couldn't be flipping bothered to give that event or that line of dialog a trigger. No, clearly making sure random rocky ledge #2467 looks REALLY nice was more important than adding a simple trigger.

At least PRETEND you're trying... :sadvaultboy:

Your title question does not support your post

Yes, it is odd that the people know you're Dragonborn, and yes I agree it is a flaw.

However, your title question is: "Did Bethesda make ANY attempt to make the NPCs react to the player actions?", and the answer is, blatantly, yes, they did make 'any attempt'. In your own description, the NPCs at least acknowledge that you exist. And when you go to a merchant, they sell things to you correct? And you can start dialogue with NPCs, yes? And bandits attack you, is that right?

So YES, Bethesda did make some kind of attempt. You have just found a very annoying gameplay flaw, that frankly should never have gone un-caught

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:17 am

Your title question does not support your post

Yes, it is odd that the people know you're Dragonborn, and yes I agree it is a flaw.

However, your title question is: "Did Bethesda make ANY attempt to make the NPCs react to the player actions?", and the answer is, blatantly, yes, they did make 'any attempt'. In your own description, the NPCs at least acknowledge that you exist. And when you go to a merchant, they sell things to you correct? And you can start dialogue with NPCs, yes? And bandits attack you, is that right?

So YES, Bethesda did make some kind of attempt. You have just found a very annoying gameplay flaw, that frankly should never have gone un-caught

I'm sorry but is there a point to this post?

Like seriously. It should be clear what I meant.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:35 pm

You guys really take the cake.

Yeah I'm sure they did this on purpose, with all the other millions of things going on they just decided to be lazy with this. Its a wonder people even make games at all these days. Bethesda are one of the few developers to provide almost ten times beyond what other games do.

Simple solution get rid of lots of the spoken dialogue, there is no way they are ever going to be able to have enough for people like you lot. Have just a greeting or something contextual that is flavour for the character then the rest just text. That way they could have a lot more dialogue, which adds to the game, and they can be more creative with it.

wait, what?

Think about what you said for a second:

"Simple solution get rid of lots of the spoken dialogue, there is no way they are ever going to be able to have enough for people like you lot. Have just a greeting or something contextual that is flavour for the character then the rest just text. That way they could have a lot more dialogue, which adds to the game, and they can be more creative with it."

Did you think about this, at all? You are saying that the fact that speech is included is the issue- audible dialogue is the problem. Can you try to explain that please? I mention it because the game still needs to "know" what to show for text instead of audible dialogue. The game will still choose a file to use for interaction with the player. Avoiding the use of audible dialogue doesn't have anything to do with the issue. If text was being displayed, the text would still be the 'wrong' text. Your simple solution doesn't work.

The actual simple solution for the OP's case is to not allow the game to mention 'Dragonborn' until the player does something to merit it, whether text or audible dialogue is used.