When i started learning more about fallout lore after starting fallout 3 i noticed the Enclave power armor in fallout 3 resembles Midwest BOS armor.. I was wondering Did Enclave destroy Midwest BOS, steal their armor and tech then head to DC ?

In fallout: New Vegas in the remenents quest(final Quest) one of the rememnets tell you that the Enclave went after defeat in the oil rig. I find no other explanation on how Enclave would have ended up with Midwest Brotherhood of steal their armor.. Though i am a big ass BOS fan. I would like this to be true as i really like the Enclave and with their tech and troop they should be given atleast one good victory in the fallout universe..

Maddy, they deserve a good victory, but the MWBOS would easily have kicked NCR's butt back then, so I doubt a few hundred remnants would be more than a

"So what happened today, Dear?"

"Nothing much, few hundred idiots came to fight, but we took them out with ease."

"Oh neat, pass the potatoes."

I could understand them stealing the designs, but not defeating them.

I doubt that the Enclave went to all out war with the MWBOS and won (and therefore the MWBOS is no more).

What might have happened though was a secret pact or agreement between the two, trading tech and whatnot.

I see no reason why it's anything other than asthetical 'coincidence', the Enclave are fully capable of making their own power armour and I see no reason why the designs of the MWBoS would interest them; it wasn't hinted or referenced in any way. With the Enclave outpost in Chicago however I fear that they might be going this way.

No

@Andronicus, maybe the devs of Fallout 3 just made the Power Armor from Fallout 3 look like the MWBoS armor, there may be no real explanation.

That's exactly what they did.

And that is what happened. But the Enclave/MWBOS meeting theory is one way that I've heared it explained in-lore. Styles is a big proponent of it.

Yeah, Styles told a perfect story about it all that tied together alot of lose ends and questions, like why the armor looks alike, why the Enclave has an outpost in MWBoS territory. They must've bumped into eachother and the Enclave weren't really that many that made it from Navarro after like 90% of them burned in a nuclear fire, they were in no condition to fight the huge MWBoS. But the MWBoS didn't know about the Enclave, they left before Fallout 2 and have no contact with California so it sounds very probable that they formed some sort of pact, the Enclave not telling anything.
And especially with the Barnaky ending of Fallout Tactics, they also have very similar goals, and both are fascist. Enclave could of course just be puppeteers and MWBoS their puppets, they use MWBoS to get what they want, kill off most of their enemies while at the same time nestle their way into the leadership and the elders of the MWBoS, trying to sound like good people with the knowledge and technology they can offer, then they kill MWBoS from within, killing Barnaky and repair and reprogram the Calculator so they have control of all the robots.
Well, that is my idea. The previously superior Enclave are the minor faction here, just 100 men or something located at an outpost in Chicago, and with the (now fascist) BoS in the really superior role where they are in control of a huge army of men and robots, and they are cleansing the wasteland of mutations at the same time, hunting down muties and ghouls and killing human sympathisers.

Yeah, they both dislike mutants, totally the same goals right? Never mind that Styles theory rides on the team going to Navarro having no knowledge of Eden and the fact that his reasoning for them having no knowledge of Eden completely renders the point of a Chicago base as useless, something I find dubious at best; or the fact that the Enclave still believe in the principles of America, ie, DEMOCRACY and not fascism.

The problem with this theory is that the Brotherhood and Outcasts talk like the power armor used by the Enclave in Fallout 3 was the same power armor used by the organization during Fallout 2, the designation is also the same.

I like that "that Styles Theory."

We had a debate about this. My theory is adaptable. I personally like the idea that those from Navarro did not know about Eden and that they were just following a signal. Still it is also possible that those under Augustus Sir were ambushed by the MWBoS while they were setting up a base in Chicago. It does not matter if they knew about Eden or not. Eden can't help the Enclave when surrounded by an Army of BoS and Robots on their home terf. It would come down to make a deal with the MWBoS for safe passage or be gunned down there in Chicago and never making it to Raven Rock.

My theory is... Enclave left Navarro (knowing or not knowing about Eden) and were making their way to Raven Rock. They only had a couple hundred people if that. They get to Chicago. They start setting up an outpost. MWBoS under General Barnaky notice people with some very advanced tech in their back yard. They surround the Enclave. They don't attack outright because the Enclave can still cause alot of Damage and the MWBoS need every man and Robot they can get, to fight the Mutant Liberation Army. MWBoS give the Enclave a deal. MWBoS elders talk to Agustus and other Enclave leaders.

Enclave get their outpost and leave some men behind to man it (which they were going to do anyways). MWBoS get some new tech and research people. Enclave also could possibly get designs for their new armour in Fallout 3. MWBoS don't know about the Enclave because they left before Fallout 2.

Enclave move on to DC. They get their ass kicked once again. Remnants from DC go back to Chicago. Those left behind there teach them everything they need to know about the MWBoS and their long war against the Mutant Liberation Army. Enclave remnants see a chance to rebuild. They develope a new moto "If we can't kill them, we might as well control them."

As SavageBeatings put it. They can become the puppet master of the MWBoS and one day take over it.

Their alliance could be set up so the Enclave remain an independent body within the MWBoS and the MWBoS allow this as long as the Enclave keep helping develope weapons and many more Armour for the war against the Mutant Liberation Army. A war that the MWBoS have been slowly losing for over 80 years. Enclave remnants can finally turn the tide of this losing war.


Edit: I am also happy for the Enclave and MWBoS having nothing to do with one another. Only problem is Both Factions are in Chicago. I like the MWBoS and I want to see them again. I am also hoping the Barnaky Ending becomes the canon ending to Tactics. I don't want the MWBoS to be nothing but a small group in Chicago. People also want to see Enclave again at least as a small power. I can't see away for both Factions to be in Chicago without another BoS vs Enclave battle other than my theory, which to me is a win win. "Darker" more Kick ass BoS and Enclave Remnants regain some power.

I fail to understand how they could take control, I could understand some of their high ranking members slithering their way into the MWBoS and possibly becoming its leader, but at that point they would not really be the Enclave anymore, just MWBoS

If they remain an independent body within the MWBoS they can someday gain enough influance over the leadership. Some Enclave leaders become Elders but the researchers and Enclave civilians remain their own group. MWBoS allow this because the Enclave have more advanced knowledge and tech. Enclave demand to stay an idependent group, it would be the only way they would help the MWBoS. MWBoS allow it because it would take years maybe even decades to reverse engineer Enclave Tech. Under my theory (dream outcome) the MWBoS under General Barnaky have been fighting a losing war for decades against the Mutant Liberation Army. They are, for lack of better words "desperate" for something to turn the tide against the MLA. Enclave is the Key to that.

MWBoS don't have the ability to make power armour, if they do they don't have the ability to make enough for every member of the BoS. Only the Elite get PA and everyone else has to make due with other armours. Enclave could help them make PA and Plasma weapons as well as Shields (force fields). Combine that with Calculator Robots, the MWBoS under Barnaky could once again take back what was lost and become a super power again.

Enclave were able to become puppet masters of Pre-War America. A group of Midwestern Brotherhood should be a piece of cake for them to worm their way to the top, and since Enclave have tech as their ace in the hole. Not that I want the Enclave to completely take over the MWBoS but I can see them having a place within their ranks.

Original idea behind http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2ZcpcO7C58 causing the "Hard Times" for the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtXhuaTcohY we learned about in Fallout 3.

"The MWBoS fight a bloody war against the Super Mutants and then the Calculator. They force settlements to aid them by giving food, ammo and their best and brightest. Many people do join willingly but the BoS treat them as cannon fodder. The Elders let mutations join because they can be very useful in places humans can't due to radiation.

Vault Zero falls to the BoS and Barnaky becomes one with the Calculator. The BoS are happy to have General Barnaky back. There is a push to make him the head Elder of the MWBoS. The famed warrior (you) who is also a General backs the move to make Barnaky the new head elder. Which he does become.

He soon recalls all mutations from the BoS armies and orders them back to their home bases were they are disarmed and tagged, later to be sent to work camps. BoS stops letting mutations join. Laws are pased and any mutation within the BoS' territory is to be rounded up and also sent to camps. (work/death camps) Which is the start of the great betrayal.

Elders that were most against Barnaky becoming head elder are removed from power. Soon purges happen with in the BoS, anyone that was against Barnaky or seen to aid mutations are also sent to the camps. Entire settlement get put to the flame. Soon the Mutant Liberation army forms. BoS caravans and outpost get hit. Work camps are liberated. The BoS see a dramatic fall in people willing to join the BoS. They start having desertions.

Human numbers are replaced more an more by calculator robots and more purges follow fearing an inside job. The BoS stop trying to contact the West in order to get their own house in order.

Biggest blow happens when rouge BoS members set off several bombs within Vault Zero in a failed coup d'état. Many of the calculators systems are damged beyond repair. Barnaky lives but finds has less control over the robotic forces. He can't control them all at once and the ability to make more robots is severely hampered.

Mutant Liberation Army makes allies with whats left of the reaver movement and are supplied with EMP weapons. The remaining slaver/raider groups once again become stronge and prey on BoS settlements and outposts.

Decades of bloody Guerrilla warfare against the MLA and the predation of other factions (slavers, raiders) have driven the MWBoS back to their remaining strongholds such as Vault Zero and Cities in between Colorado and Chicago.

Lyons and his BoS are sent out to make contact but don't really know where they are, they know the MWBoS went East. They took a path that takes them away from the MWBoS strongholds at Vault Zero and the others in the Midwest. As Lyons gets closer to DC he hears rumors of people that have similar tech and a simbol are in the area. Lyon spends along time hunting down those rumors. MWBoS fearing that Lyons is just the tip of a larger army coming up from the south west, do what they can to not be found by them.

Lyons is persistent and soon the MWBoS send out a group of their own elders to make contact. They tell Lyons that MWBoS are just a few hundred men and women close to Chicago. Lyons having made contact goes on to the more imprtant mission of heading to DC.

Like the Barnaky Ending states its a war the Mutant Liberation Army is distended to lose. MWBoS have seen bitter defeat after bitter defeat for generations and are now a shadow of their glory days but time is on their side. Mutations can't reproduce and the ones that don't fall to the BoS will be taken care of by father time. The humans and fellow bos memebers that sided with the MLA grow tired of fighting. Seeing as how they have crippled the MWBoS and liberated much of their territory. They just want to settle and farm, the threat is all but gone (so they think). After generations of war the younger generations don't take up the fight."

OKay but the Enclave are in quite a desperate position themselves when they encounter the MWBoS. I know you said it was dream outcome so obviously it is not likely to happen.

I think given their diminished numbers and continuing diminised numbers with poor morale causing desertions I think the Enclave would have kept as low profile as they could.

You are right, it is not likely to happen :sadvaultboy: . Just a fan idea for a future game. MWBoS and Enclave are in Chicago. BoS was their decades before Enclave.

Enclave and MWBoS first encounter to me would have been a Mexican standoff. BoS would win but they would be bloodied. BoS don't know about the Enclave. They just see advanced tech. Tech they need to win a war. Tech that would take way to long to figure out and reproduce. So they make a deal to let the Enclave live, set up a base all in exchange for getting help. Enclave agree but arn't that commited to it. Once Enclave are again destroyed and once again desperate remnants. They see that the only chance would be to ally themselves with a like minded group and someday take control over it. "Can't kill them might was well control them." Or "Can't beat them might as well join them."



Chicago is the Midwestern Brotherhood's backyard. Low profile or not, I dount they could sneak into it and set up a base without attracting attention from the BoS.

Yah I dont see that happening, the MWBoS is nto gonna be all like "Yah we just owned you, but you can set up an autonomous base, and do whatever you want without owing us allegiance, thats k."

I see it mroe like, "You just cost us good men, lets nab the scientists like America did post WWII and make off with as much tech as we can."

[cue random man from nowhere, talking like he knows his [censored]]

Styles' idea isn't so bad. Just take out the meeting part, and have the Enclave stumbling on a dead patrol, who'd fallen off MB's comm grid. They bring them back and the lab coats have limited success, reverse-engineering features of the suits. August needs to move, and he brings the research with him. MB and Enclave never parlay, and the Enclave has their suits.

Theoretically, this gives the Enclave whatever data stored in the suits' on-board computers.

hmmmm

If i am going to go with a theory, i wuld go with what new guy said.. it would be very easy for a dead paladin to be found out in the wastes somewhere, if it was near a travled area anyway.
Its cool to speculate on what could have been the reasoning, and it woul dbe cool to see it play out, a MWBoS/Enclave run in.

but at the same time, they share some similarities, but the MWBoS helmets are much more elongated with smoother, curvier edges.. i would liken them more to an elks head.
the East Enclaves points are shorter, the mask is sectioned differently and thre are a lot more sharp adges and lines on it.. i would liken them to bats.

I reckon Beth probably got the idea from FO:T.. i guess i could go either way

It's possible. No matter the specifics of such a meeting, it would explain the following:

1. Advanced Power Armour MK II. Why do both groups wear the same Power Armour otherwise?
2. The number of soldiers the Enclave has in DC, when the majority of their forces were on the Oil Rig. Either the Enclave assimilated the Midwest BoS into their own ranks by force or by treaty.
3. There's no way the two groups would be in Chicago without SOME kind of meeting.
4. Why Lyons never made contact with the MWBoS. They'd already been assimilated into the Enclave and moved on. The amount of territory Tactics covers means that there's no way Lyons wouldn't have found some sign of them.

But the main point is that even if Autumn Sr. had an army of super-virile men scoring around the clock for 40 years, there's no way they'd have the numbers they have without recruiting. And the Power Armour and the Chicago base go a long way toward suggesting what happened.

tch, that's right :facepalm: Autumn's his name, not August. ( He's still a dill wad. )

The basic armor was pre-war, only augmented by MB. Autumn's Enclave, having lost their r&d capability, return to pre-war designs. The Enclave know where to look for better armor: Chicago. They keep a low profile, as they locate armor and schematics. What we see in F3 is their latest generation, developed in Raven Rock. As for the numbers of troops, I'm gonna say that's game play.

I say no........ They would have had to make that fo3. A potential giant powerhouse faction can not be destroied by pieces of another powerhouse faction without having a game about it.

Bethesda likes fo tactics IMO This is why they keep it canon. The "Styles theory" or something very close to it is what I think happened.

IMO Fo4 will answer these questions. Bethesda did some wacky stuff, but the Enclave in mid west bos pa can not be a "overlook" or even "bad writing."

IMO it was a mental set up for fo4.

ED E really puts the icing on the cake for me.

We ve got 1 major faction wearing another major faction s armour from a game that has went 10 years with no real ending.

I ve even though it possible that some of the fo3 Enclave were mid west bos.

If bos stayed in pa and in sealed bunkers during the fallout they are pure human without a doubt IMO . Enclave and mid west bos don t know each other, and there is a tactics ending that would make a Enclave/ mid west bos merger reasonable.

Except that it's confirmed that Hellfire armour was developed and built at Raven Rock, the Enclave don't need to make a stop over and steal somebody elses power armour; hell they don't even need to get rid of their own seeing as how it's the best.

@Rook, no they wouldn't, after the Vault Dwellers left Vault 13 in 2170 by the time of Fallout 2 they had become the mutants - confirmed by their research with things like the FEV Virus and such; more than likely it was the food and water as by 2242 the Enclave have perfectly exposed people at Navarro, maybe during the 70 years the air finally become non-toxic.

As "President" Eden made clear, the BOS are trators to the USA.

Maxson (I) mutinied against the USA. Then they took their long walk from Mariposa to Lost hills.

Even if they still count as "Real Humans" They're traitors first and foremost.