Ehhh...I guess that's true. You would have a better understanding of combate due to your use of a short sword. Its just, hand to hand just feels to different than a one handed weapons for me. Like ya said, its to opinionated to really make a clear cut choice... Personally I hope it stays its own skill, we'll see what happens though.

It doesn't matter, hand to hand is in. Unless you think that Athletics is a more important skill.

All else being equal, I'd rather be in a fist fight with someone who had never used a weapon, than a veteran of many battles who has killed men with a sword and shield.

i understand what u mean. i jus think h2h should be its own skill, since i think there could be alot of possibilties for perks. but then again the perks could be spread through other skills (sneak, 1-handed, block) and also through different weapons such as pushy from FONV (ofcourse change it a bit so it fits the setting)

No its fairly certain in fact totaly certain now hand to hand is out. one handed has no perks for it they covered all the attack skills and it wasnt there. Its not there. So most likely IF you can do much of anything sans a weapon its got no perks and no skill attached. much like cooking its just as is.

Well they covered mace sword and axe, and we know dagger back stabs are in sneak, but there are still a lot of 1 handed perks we know nothing about.

Yeah! Skyrim's Creed! :facepalm:


Nah. I think that hand-to-hand should be a last resort combat choice. Sorry for all you folks who want to be monks and such. :confused:
But, then again, we don't know everything about the game and hand-to-hand hasn't been mentioned much. So... there may still be hope for those who want it as a full skill.

Anyway, what I'm saying is, I would like to see it as a nonlethal means of attack. Say, you don't like some guy's face in the tavern-- go knock his teeth in. Have an actual bar fight without going to prison for attempted murder. That would be nice for a change. Sometimes I just want to get in a harmless fight! <_<
Just some standard power attacks (uppercut, jab, etc.) would work fine. My two cents. Sorry, again, to the monkish crowd.

Besides, is it practical to run up to a hulking dragon and punch it in the nose? :vaultboy:

:lmao:


I hope not.


This seems like the most likely path to me.



In a game that is not centered around martial arts i agree 100%.

In all honesty, I've never played past the first Assassin's Creed. Is it in that game's sequals? I don't have a clue, I can't even remember if it's in the first one now. I want TES to be TES just like everyone else.

Everyone always goes on and on about choice. The mages should be with me on this one, for crying out loud. They're worried about losing one of their favorite abilitys, spellmaking, and I'm worried about losing my favorite skill which is hand to hand. People can die after one punch to the gut. That one famous magician died from a single punch to the gut. He crumpled like a lief right after it, dying days later from a ruptured apendix. A fist can be just as deadly as a sword, a master of a martial arts style could go toe to toe with a master swordsman. Many fighting techniques were created in order to fight not only bigger enemies, but enemies that were armed.

If I want to fight down a dragon, hand to hand, why can't I? Cause its not realistic? Neither are dragons.

A go anywhere do anything open world fantasy role playing game, in which you can't improve how well you fight with your bare hands.
Read the above sentence, and tell me honestly that it makes any sense.

There is a reason why bare-knuckle boxing was outlawed. Pros would often kill each other in seconds or at least cause severe, permanent brain damage. HtH is very viable.

I hope they make Hand-to-hand perks epic... So you wish to bring a sword against my master of martial arts? What good will it do you, when YOU ARE ALREADY DEAD! (...Am I first to make that reference?)

Heck... I hope higher levels of Hand-to-Hand forsake realism, and go full Kung-fu Wuxia-style (With aid from Awesome-enhanced Acrobatics). And the Khajiit have Claws as sharp as glass daggers, twice as hard, and involved in epic Martial Arts.

lol, nice

Same here though. With perks, a lot of unique moves could be introduced, and hand to hand can easily be improved upon. I really hope they do something really cool with it.

I hope there are hand-to-hand+Acrobatic perks that make H2H combat less stupid and more http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkW4tGuC-1w

Hand to Hand should be put into Athletics/Acrobats skill seeing as it's only fun if you're either some kind of profesional athlete "Boxxer, Cage Fighter" or Ninja

Would be weird if it was gone. Especially for Kajiit.

It would be a bit strange, but I guess you could have h2h under two handed weapons. You can consider your hands weapons. It's silly to think hand to hand won't be in the game. You really think the devs would leave you defenseless with your weapons break? I think h2h was too lethal in Oblivion. At least in Morrowind it took a while to kill them while they were on the ground.

Not against heavily armored or giant opponents it's not.

Its a shame if they have cut this.

As for h2h not being effective? A human body is a fragile thing. A good punch can do as much internal damage as any weapon

H2H makes for a good Monk, I would imagine they wouldnt have gotten rid of it because if nords relate to anything like Norseman/Vikings then they're will be a lot of drinking and bar fights.

But there's more to hth than just punching. It's never been shown in a TES game before, but there are techniques that were formed for fighting armed and armored oponents. I'll even give a valid real world example. There is a move called Koetsuji Echo Combo. The idea is, even if a bullet can not pierce something, vibrations can. Its based off the same principle of earthquakes, if a home vibrates at the same amplitude and frequency as the earth below it, the damage is multiplied. The user hits a person, and then follows up with a second hit that mimics the enemies body shaking exactly. The first hit gets the body shaking, and the next uses that to amplify the second hit.

It's focus is internal damage, and would be a high ranking move if put in, but hand to hand is a viable fighting style. There are moves out there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXRb6nPcx10

As some people've pointed out, at higher levels of skill, H2H should be very valuable, while at low levels, it's impractical.

At low levels, it can be outright inferior to any weapon, but it should have a quadratic rate of growth... Once you become a master of Hand-to-hand fighting, your're not just some musclebound oaf tossing punches in a fistfight, you're a Martial Arts master with unsurpassed knowledge of how to [censored] up the human body no matter how it tries to protect itself.

And TES is not a simulation of "Real Life" (As understood by incompetant nerds) anyway. We have Mount & Blade for that. Tamriel is a world where a Master of Heay armor can silently sneak up on someone in completely joint-locked armor, commit homicide, then engage in incistuous relationships without removing a single piece, still joint-locked http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Hallgerd%27s_Tale. This is also a world where, using a sword summoned by his soul, a Redguard can nuke an entire continent. At some point in every fantasy game, the abilities of a character surpass those attainable in real life. In Dungeons and Dragons, that's level 6. In Tamriel, I'm thinking a skill of 50 is "Maximum Observed in Real Life."

Also, You are Already Dead!

Many weapons aren't. Do you want to remove short swords since they wont do crap against someone in heavy armor or against huge opponents. There always is a point in game play where you have to draw a line, where that point is will differ for many.

I'd actually say the effectiveness should be increased, because in past games, hand-to-hand was really rather useless, and while technically, it's realistic that using your fists wouldn't be the best option when fighting against enemies armed with bows and swords, this is a video game, it doesn't necessarily have to be realistic, I don't play the Elder Scrolls for a simulation of real life, I play it to be entertained. Also, the Elder Scrolls is an RPG, a role-playing game, in other words, it's a game where you define a character, and then role-play that character. This is relevant here because usually, an RPG is expected to allow players to choose multiple different play styles, and it needs to ensure that the different play styles are viable. If I choose t role-play a character who uses hand to hand as his primary means of offense, I expect to be able to survive doing so, otherwise, what's the point of even letting me make such a character? In short, if hand to hand will not be a viable play style in Skyrim, than there's no point in having the skill at all.

In any case, we don't know if hand to hand is in the game or not, it's true that it wasn't mentioned in the pod cast, but a lot of skills weren't mentioned, does this mean they're not present? I think it's too early to draw any conclusions yet, I'm taking a "wait and see" approach to this issue.