Nicely done! I was thinking of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KN-8G0HCD5U.

2:45 to 3:21.

I'm hoping hand to hand is still there,those that say it's useless are wrong in my opinion.
Hand to hand combat is more than just punshing.
1: It's fun.
2: it's effectively faster ( you have no weight of a weapons etc )
3: Having spiked gloves,claws etc,make it deadly (adding poisons to that too )
This should be default for khajiit's and argonians,i also still believe we'll see werewolves at some point,they use their hands too.
4: you can use the enemies force and weapons against them. ( disarm also)
5: dont forget kicks,throws etc. ( light boots with spikes also )
6: Combine hand to hand with dragon shouts....and tell me you wouldn't like it.
7:Stealth with hand to hand would be deadly,neck snaps etc.
8:This is a more fantasy option....what about a Chi-blast for monk types etc. ( chi is an energy just like magic ) why not?

Also: Tod howard said two handed weapons take up two slots (obviously).
So a slot for each hand.....how do we know there is'nt an option when we start two handed perks ,to choose unarmed,rather than swords,hammers etc. ( we don't )
But it's something to consider.
They have also spent alot of time on combat,especially close quarters,could this also indicate hand to hand is still of use?....who knows.
Anyway i believe hand to hand should still be there as an option,it's not weak at all.

There are some good idea's in the oblivion forums on playing monks too,like touch spells for chi blasts etc,some great ideas there for roleplay

I want brass knuckles dangit!

I hope hand-to-hand only requires one hand to use, enabling the switching between Sword and fist in combat, like an open-handed Prince of Persia.

Same here. Everything from punching enemies in the face after a slash to possiblely disarming them to other unique moves gained via perks that do a number of things. There's so much they could build on with hand combat, I really hope they take advantage of it. The other fighting styles got quite a bit of attention, so i'm hoping for something really cool with hand to hand as well.

Did you get that from an Anime or something? I can't find it in google.

Yeah I think that would be possible, I know it would mean you could not use hand-to-hand as a one handed weapon and mix it with spells or another melee weapon but it does makes sense, effective hand-to-hand fighting requires two hands right? And I'm pretty sure it's not a skill of its own since Todd said each skill had different perk trees and I don't really see hand-to-hand getting more than one perk tree since not many people use it. (but I do so don't forget me gamesas please!)

Why would require two hands to be effective? Most hand-to-hand fighters also use a weapon in another hand (Such as a switchblade, broken beer bottle, or some sort of club in the modern, real world). Heck... it would be even more awesome if you could use hand-to-hand combat interspersed with two-handed weapon fighting. Two-handed weapons aren't that heavy (An authentic, non-ceremonial Scottish Claymore weighs between 5-6.5 lbs.)

This is soooo wrong...



Googled. It's from some kind of fiction named 'Outskirts Battle Dome'.

It kind of reminds me of the thing I watcched a while back about some martial art "master" who claimed he could hurt people with his ki alone, like at a few feet range past his hand. When he made a punching motion in their direction his students would dutifully fall down with awesome Kirk like action moves after the enterprise has been hit hard. He got in a televised fight with someone who thought he was full of crap, and mysteriously his fake punches did nothing. And he then got beat up kind of bad. It was sad to see in some respects because he was an old dude, and he was getting his ass kicked by a 20year old. I always wondered, did he believe his crap worked and people were hypnotized or something into falling for it, did he believe and his students played along, or was he full of crap and he couldn't come up with a way to get out of his lie so he went through with the fight.

Still in the non-bullcrap realm, you can really effing hurt people with punches, kicks, throws, joint locks etc. Sure a punch wont go through a steel chest plate, but neither will a dagger or most swords. And given this is a fantasy game with magic, alchemy etc. does it even have to fit within the non-bullcrap realm. D&D had the monk which was not remotely realistic unless you somehow think the destroyer novels which the monk was based on actually mesh with reality. Heck as a sort of in elder scrolls example as of oblivion if you mastered acrobatics you could jump off of water. That is not possible, but it is monk super power like. I do not see why the same fantasy logic can't extend to punches.

Here's what I think they're going to do...

NOTE: This is pure speculation

There's absolutely no way Hand to Hand got removed. You will need to have some sort of attack if your character manages to get themselves disarmed, and I don't think Bethesda will make it so your unarmed attack cannot improve at all, so logically it must be part of a skill. However, it really doesn't make sense for it to be located in either one-handed weapons or two-handed weapons, so I think it will either be merged with Athletics/Acrobatics or whatever, or there will be some sort of Martial Arts skill that governs hand to hand and unarmored combat.

Also, for anybody who thinks martial arts aren't a part of TES lore, go and replay Morrowind, talk to anybody who's a Healer and ask them about their trade. They'll specifically say they studied the unarmed and unarmored martial arts of the Khajiit, so it would make sense for them to include this.

I don't know if hand-to-hand as been removed, I don't think so. It might have fallen under an unarmed skill or something. But what are you going to do if you have no weapon at all? it only makes sense that there will be a hand-to-hand skill in some form.

Well as the thread title hints,my question was if hand to hand as a "skill" has been removed.I agree that if you have nothing equiped in either hand that you will be able to throw punches.I just dont think hand to hand is a "skill" anymore.
If spears didnt make the cut as a weapon option,then I dont see why hand to hand would make the cut as a skill.
Compare the amount of threads there are on spears to the amount of threads there are on hand to hand.Obviously hand to hand is not nearly as popular.For example,if hand to hand was removed alltogether.I highly doubt that when the next TES game comes out that as many people will be freaking out over whether or not hand to hand will be returning.Yes I know some people really like hand to hand(maybe 3% of players)but lets get real here,the other 97% of players could care less.
I would rather they spend there time on better things.Obviously this is just my opinion and I am not trying to make anyone else mad.I could be wrong and then you hand to hand fans can hunt me down. :gun: Although you would probly punch me,not shoot me.

Lol, I've seriously never heard of that before. Try Kenkaishi Strongest Diciple. The idea behind it is solid no matter where it comes from though. I was being honest about earthquakes, damage is multiplied to homes when the vibrations of homes and the earth their' sitting on match up. match up. Hell, I haven't a clue how to do it myself, but I'd imagine it would hurt like hell to have your head suddenly bouncing around inside your helmet. Solid armor doesn't give, so if one's fist were strong enough, the force of the punch would translate right through it. A second punch to the exact same spot probably would hurt even worce after the first.

In a world with dragons, magic, and a whole lot of other things that aren't realistic, why is hand to hand combat the only thing that is held to a realistic standard?

Unarmed is not a skill in the same way Blade and Blunt are no longer skills. Does that mean there are no swords and maces in TES:V? NO.

Hopefully they have a range of unarmed style perks under both one handed and two handed skills.

Like what? Slap and double uppercut?

I think its going to fall under two handed. being as you use two hands :confused:

My Google said that it's from manga, a series that is famous for not following real-world physics.

Because a Daedric longsword made via taking raw ebony and refining it with craft and magical substances of the lesser minions of Oblivion which allows it to cut through not only physcial objects, but ghosts as well totally fits real world physics.

This doesn't make any sense... An earthquake would cause the same sort of vibrations on everything, regardless of whether it was ground or a house... A punch on armour wouldn't really cause much vibration, just push it in a bit and then have it bounce back (elasticity, reduces the force felt, which is the point of armour when attacked by blunt items)... If a helmet is built right, your head shouldn't be bounding around in it, not that vibrations means 'flailing body parts madly' anyway... A punch doesn't have a frequency, so how can it match the vibrations? This whole idea makes no sense to me.

Oh hush you, ResistanceKnight.

Cause it was just one example a guy came up with on the fly after reading something like it a long while ago. Don't take me so seriously just because I went back and found the name, I'm just trying to open people up to the idea that hand to hand could be expanded upon. There are moves out there, realistic or not, that could easily be placed in game to make hand to hand not only a lot more funner to play with, but make it just as useful as a sword or magic.

And as for earthquakes, I'd rather not get into the P and S wave's here. Just put a glass of water on a table, and then wabble said table. The cup isn't going to move exactly with the table, its going to move every which way. The water's more likely to spill over if it matches the wabble of the table, cause the combined enersha of the cup of water along with the ground helping push it in one direction or another combines into one force that can be a lot more powerful than just the ground wobbling alone.

Edit: I'll hush when all the topics about spears and spellmaking hush up too.

Only if your a pansy, yes, but REAL MAN PUNCH HOLES IN CONCRETE AND KILL DRAGONS WITH BARE HANDS!!! I need no pansy ass sword when IM the deadliest weapon around! THATS SKYRIM FOR YOU, GIRLS!

But seriously, I would like to see some martial art moves in form of perks in this one, unrealistic as they might get (Kenshiro comes to mind..... hehehe), and I dont want the skill itself to be gone, but whattcha gonna do?

Water is a liquid, and movement from inertia (that's how you spell it) is not the same as vibration. The cup isn't even attatched to the table. A house would be (to the ground). This isn't even the same sort of idea. I was confused by what you even meant in the last part. Matches the wabble of the table? It's being tossed around a bit because it's a loose object sitting on a moving object. Doesn't make it "matching" it.

Houses do bend, you know that right? I'm just giving you a very scaled down basic example, of course its not going to be perfect. The ground starts shaking, and then the house starts to bend as it tries to hold itself together. Homes are made to be able to move a little, that's why wood holds together better than stone buildings.

And why do you keep pushing this? Like I said, its just a really bad example of a possible less than realistic move that could be added to give hand to hand a fighting chance against swords and such. I just had a test in my natrual desaster class in college, I really don't want to be talking about this right now. I'd much rather be talking about skyrim, hence me being here.