Now, this question is based around "If http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=847495&st=20&p=12368651&#entry12368651 is correct," so if you don't subscribe to that then it's pretty invalid.

Anyway, to the point, I was reading over on TR's lore forums 'bout Sload's big theory regarding the Dragon Break/Marukhati, and the topic drifted to the subject of how many Dragon Breaks there've been. So the question arose in my head, did the Tsaesci break the Dragon? When they ate it to become it, and mythically erased the Men of Akavir, a Dragon Break would explain the fact that traces remain (Skeletons at pale pass, mention in Mysterious Akavir, etc.) of their former existence. And it would also help explain the immortality gained from it, since such seems to be the general way of things with a Dragon Break. So would it be right to presume they broke it when they achieved Tsaesance?

(Edit: What I mean is, maybe they broke it instead of taking advantage of shifting time in the Dawn, as AP had suggested. I just recalled in that topic, that there wasn't explanation for why the Men were still remembered in some ways, and it seemed like it would be much the same situation as how Mortal Vehk who slew Nerevar is remembered even though Vehk the God's history doesn't include that. In case I wasn't clear. )

Or maybe this was just assumed all along, and I'm behind. I've not lurked for a while and a fair amount of new things arose since I'd been on these forums

One other little thing... I can't for the life of me remember how Tsaesci is pronounced. Is it They-see? I seem to recall hearing it that way, once.

Well, I can help you on the pronunciation, at least: "Say-es-see".

How is a dragon break any different from the Dawn when references to dragon breaks are sometimes called the Middle Dawn?

I wanna know where it says they mythically erased all Akaviri Men from existence. I know they ate them, but erased them? I'm not following you.

KM: It isn't necessarily, but the fact that there were Akaviri men's skeletons at Pale Pass would lead me to believe that they didn't consume them during the Dawn. And from what I've seen, only the Marukhati Dragon Break is called the "Middle Dawn," I've never seen any other (Miracle of Peace, Rimmen, Red Mountain) called such.

OIB: As I'd said, I was basing this off of Adventurous Putty's interpretation of the Tsaesci creation myth. Maybe I should've provided a http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=847495&st=20&p=12368651&#entry12368651, now that I think of it.

Mankar Camoran's triumph was to be called the Mythic Dawn, once his master shattered the Earthbones and returned to nonlinear time.

The paranthesis caused by the Selectives can be called an age, not just a few hours of disruption, which is why it gets the name Middle Dawn. But I think that it's an apt and poetic term for all Dragon Breaks. Certainly better than 'Untime.'

My post was worded pretty poorly. Still, I wasn't really saying that the "Middle Dawn" another name for a dragon break, just that the Foretime and dragon breaks were also shifting. But, I'm not going OT over this.

I do get what you're aiming for about when that occurred. I just assumed it was during the Dawn. Yet, I really don't know anything about the Tsaesci Creation Myth. I don't understand it. Tell me, how do you interpret the myth?

There's parts of it that I can't make much sense of, but it seems to imply approximately what AP suggested, best I can tell. It seems like it may be a similar process the Dwemer used, just not on themselves. The Dwemer became the golden skin of Numidium, the Men of Akavir became the golden scales of the Tsaesci.

That said, I do think they were likely seeking something different from what the Dwemer went for.

Right. I don't think the implication is that they erased them, but that they ARE them. The Anuad references the Tsaesci as men. If it is true that they are indeed almost snakes, then this reference would make little sense unless they mythically merged with them.

I have to agree with Putty though. It really could have only happened in the dawn. The Anuad states that they have always been men, so if they ate the men of Akavir then it only could have happened at the point before linear time was defined. The line IS blurred though. A middle dawn and the first dawn are pretty hard to seperate seeing as they do involve the breaking of linear time.

I'm about to argue historical consistency in a topic concerning the Dragon Broke....

Assuming AP's idea holds water, which it doesn't at this point, it can not explain why there are human skeletons at the pale pass because the Tseasci were in that time period already known as Serpents. So to explain this the assumed Dragon Broke must have happened right in between that one battle and the Tseasci surrender to Reman. Aside from being a change as subtle as the new skin of the Dunmer, this would put Mysterious Akavir's historical description somewhat out of place and time.

As such it doesn't work.

But what if it was a case like we see with Vivec, where they did but didn't eat the men? Or rather, at Pale Pass, they both were and weren't serpent-folk. Of course that would mean moving their date of achieving Tsaescance up even further. Either way we seem to be left with quite a conundrum. One that I'm betting doesn't have a solution right now.

Eh, concerning pronunciation, MK said "ZAYshee."

I'll kindly ask you to take my word for it instead of having me wade through search results.

I was going off http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Shivering:Grommok%27s_Journal from SI.

It really doesn't matter how it's pronounced? I mean, the actual pronunciation of Bosmer is "bo-mare" but no one cares about this fact. Really, it's boring.

Also, some people understand the Tsaesci creation myth, but I don't. It'd be nice to talk about it to get an idea of what actually occurred.

Zay-Shee sound nicer. Then again, Zay-eh-shee sounds more natural.

Nice names go far, y'know.

Bo-mare and Dune-mare, yes, but don't tell it to the voice actors.

Temple Zero doesn't discuss what it doesn't understand, unfortunately.

I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few Dragon Breaks in Akavir.

Well, if the dragon broke, it wouldn't just be in Akavir even if they're the ones that caused it...

Not recently, but given that the Empire has only studied and experienced the latest Dragon Break, it's certainly possible to have happened long before.

No, I mean if the Akaviri had ever caused a Dragon Break, Tamriel would experience it too; meaning somebody on Tamriel would know about it even if were just the Khajiit...

There isn't much information on even all of Tamriel's Dragon Breaks.