Didn't Todd say the same about the Oblivion level scaling too? How did that work out?

Also,
"Too much emphasis is being put on "skill" and basically the game doesn't acknowledge that some people may just be inherently better at some things than others due to the way they are born. It seems as if when you start off, all characters will be identical and will become more varied as you get into the higher levels. The latter of that is good, but seems most low level people in the game will be completely identical in their stats, skills, and usefulness, as if they were only "born" during character creation and never had a background. They addressed an issue both Oblivion and Morrowind had, but they introduced an equal and opposite issue in the process.
Characters should be different from each other at the beginning of the game, and be different from each other at the end as well. They've just reversed the issues. "

I want to expand upon this issue: I, in playing the game, want to make a character and then take that character on a journey. If everyone is a like at the beginning except for stamina/health/magica then, in my mind, you're saying everyone is equally ugly, equally stupid, equally weak, etc etc - everyone is essentially identical and this is a streamlined way for the attention-span limited to jump right into the game. I welcome perks/feats/etc which later flesh out my character but if playing through the game the only difference between my first character at Ug the massive Orc smasher and Mitzy the Barmaid who is joining the assassins is the single feat chosen at first level and the skills increasing/perks learned LATER on.. what kind of character have I made? Not much of one. Can anyone name a RPG that does not quantify the individual the player controls? Not their skills.. skills are things LEARNED. Attributes is a quantification of your natural beginning stuff.

That's my view. Right now, I'm sitting on the fence, but ultimately I'll just have to play the game.

Also, what made TES for me is the lore and the freedom it provides to wander and explore. I would say quest flexibility, but that was mostly removed in Oblivion, and DF was mostly "do this and succeed or fail."

The vast open worlds, the lore, the entrancing and continually evolving universe that Bethesda created is what makes it a TES game. Attributes are just a game mechanic used. Every TES game's gameplay has evolved from the previous game. Sometimes being vastly different. I can't say how well this system will work until I play it, but I see it more as the natural evolution of gameplay that the TES games have been following for quite a while now.

I think Itsgrady makes some really good points on what we're missing without the attribute system. It's hard to imagine how perks can provide the same level of control of character growth as attributes did.

Maybe Beth will miraculously accomplish this, I'm not dismissing this possibility, but I think it's pretty silly to assume at this very moment the new system is better. We just don't know enough about it yet. Saying things like "if you don't like the new system, you're close-minded" is a close-minded thing to do; when we know so little, we should be accept the fact that there could be problems with Skyrim and things we dislike. What's the harm in questioning certain aspects of the game? Isn't that better than blindly supporting Bethesda unconditionally, providing little useful feedback?

I think we need much more information on how the whole system will work rather that the piecemeal info we are getting now to pass adequate judgement. All we have now is that there are no attributes and we have lots of perks. Perks can become really boring if they replace mundane attributes such as endurance. Perk - you can now lift 50 units more than previously - wow that made leveling up so worth it. Also arrtibutes were used in FO3/NV within speech options. SOme tmes charisma helped, sometimes a high intelligence. This caanot occur now as the chance that you have that 1 perk in 280 to fulful a dialogue option would make it unfeasible.

We need for info.

Obviously, but thats what Im against. Let those noobs be awe struck by the shear amount of stuff, like I was with Daggerfall.

Lol, if I played TES for the leveling system I don't think I'd have any fun.

I don't care HOW I get stronger, as long as I have options (options doesn't mean "unlimited choices" but simply "choices")
And for me, options aren't in numbers on your character, but in how YOU play the game. I have two characters in Oblivion that have almost the same stats, and they play VERY differently, why? because I chose so

You know, when it comes right down to it, we know next to nothing about how it will work. Sure, we can speculate, but that's just guessing.

So those who are saying it's terrible seem like a bunch of doomsayers. Those who are saying it's a great thing seem like a bunch of [censored]/girls. There really isn't anything to say one way or the other about how well it will work.

No, it's not flawed at all. So if my opinion is flawed, then your opinion about my opinion being flawed, is flawed. It's sort've a given when someone puts something in an opinion thread that what they say is an opinion, it would go much better if people would remember that.

I do admit to having occasional moments of doubt regarding lack of attributes - but I'm happy to wait and see. When I'm feeling positive about them being gone is when I remember the slog and micromanagement of trying to achieve at least +3/+3/+3 on level up in Oblivion (it was almost a mini-game in itself!), so that I didn't become horrendously weak compared to the levelled enemies later in the game - oh the happy hours spent standing around casting a spell on self over and over. I will not shed a tear if that is gone.

If I feel similar effects to having increased strength, wisdom, speed etc. when I'm playing Skyrim (ie. I can hit harder and carry more, cast better spells, run faster) as I increase in level, I don't really mind so much about the mechanics behind it whether it's solely through skills or whether perks do that sort of thing now. As long as I can just get on and explore and become a bit more powerful throughout the course of the game, I will be happy.

Really I think itll work great. With the new system atributed wouldnt work at all with it. Everyone has to remember theyve been working on this for years and still have alot of stuff to do, they've thought long and hard about what to do. Perks will take their place in some occassions, less rediculously hilarious speed running, more of a boost of speed given by a specific perk