Difficulty should be scrapped.

Post » Wed May 09, 2012 11:04 am

It really should. It's an outdated method we no longer need. I was thinking about some older forum posts earlier and one I remembered in particular. A certain forum member here, who I won't name, said he played on Very Easy due to the fact he doesn't want to put up with emptying bullets into things. I don't blame him. Assassins just one shot people with pistols, yet you take 9 shots with a riot shotgun just to die? However, that's a little unfair on that guy's end. Sure, he can deal damage quickly and end fights as easily as they began, it doesn't mean that for the other party. The PC is now a bullet sponge. I propose that difficulty is scrapped altogether, but instead we have to options, one for how much damage we deal and how much we can take. This is essentially what difficulty does right now. It affects incoming damage and outgoing damage. So why not seperate it? If I want to deal maximum damage and take maximum damage, I should. Or if I want to lower maximum damage but take lower damage, or I could go for a challenge and go for low damage and high pain.

I think we would still have a difficulty name for them though. For example, damage output "Normal or Easy or Hard, instead of numbers because people may not see it as a difficulty.

What say you on this idea?
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Rex Help
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 6:08 pm

So have something at the beginning of the game where you change the damage to your liking?
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Deon Knight
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 10:32 pm

I... sorta agree. I think user control over that should simply be scrapped. If the game is too hard, user heavier armor and overpowered guns. If it's too easy, run around in pre-war casualwear and only use low end weapons.

You can already do this, which is why the need for difficulty options at all is obviated.

Queue
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sophie
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 6:36 pm

Alternatively:


Difficulty Sliders (For enemies):

Damage:
1 -40%
2 -30%
3 -20%
4 -10%
5 +/-0%
6 +10%
7 +20%
8 +30%
9 +40%
10 +50%


Health:

1 -40%
2 -30%
3 -20%
4 -10%
5 +/-0%
6 +10%
7 +20%
8 +30%
9 +40%
10 +50%


AI:
1 Enemies are dumb, doesn't use grenades, chems or stimpaks and does not flank.
2 Enemies use grenades.
3 Enemies use grenades, chems and stimpaks.
4 Enemies use grenades, chems and stimpaks and they flank.
5 Enemies use everything at their disposal, they can sneak, flank and take cover


Accurcy:
1 -30%
2 -15%
3 +/-0%
4 +15%
5 +30%


Fully customizable.
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Tyrone Haywood
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 12:14 pm

One difference in RPGs (PnP or cRPG) is that of character accuracy with weapons. An opponent can survive several shots (some to the head) because those headshots could hit ear cartilage and the shots to the body could be scratches and nicks as well... it doesn't matter if the barrel was pressed to the target either; barrel position is for show. In an RPG it really is supposed to be them holding it, and their ability with the weapon; (that's why there is a skill for it instead of just point & shoot FPS). It gets awkward when put into a first person game with a mouse and the pixel-point accuracy of most players these days; accuracy not always in keeping with the character's abilities.

Of course, this can't be taken as a rule, only a generalized concept (that should not be too scrutinized).

For difficulty... well... Hitpoints are another of those generalized concepts. Hitpoints reflect an amalgam of resilliance, luck, and experience; and not 1:1 either. In an RPG the new recruit and the grizzled veteran commander can technically take the same bullet hit in the same place and time, yet the recruit (lacking experience) would more likely have that hit something vital, where the commander has been shot before and could be assumed to have (conciously or unconciously) been positioned better (harder to hit vitals) :shrug:, and gotten hit in the ear cartilage. :lol:

No its not true to life, but it is true to RPGs quite often. Hitpoints may or may not reflect pure 1:1 toughness of two opponents; but they can also be a kind rule padding that reflects life experience.

I don't think Difficulty should be scrapped. The game plays on Normal, and that's the official experience... Easy and Hard exist for those that would rather it. :shrug:
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Naomi Ward
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 10:40 pm

My only gripe with what we have is that I wish there were other sliders or options to change more than just the combat difficulty in the game.
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Reven Lord
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 10:29 pm

i play on very easy because i hate frustrating gameplay i like relaxing while playing games
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Mari martnez Martinez
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 4:48 pm

Alternatively:


Difficulty Sliders (For enemies):

Damage:



Fully customizable.

Fully agree. This would be the best of all worlds. Power to the player!

Leave the standard canned difficulty settings in place for those who don't want to bother, but add a option at the end of the basic choices, for those who want to tweak it exactly to their liking.
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GabiiE Liiziiouz
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 2:12 pm

It would allow hardcoe players more customization over their experience, but I do think it would confuse casual players just entering the series.

As always, there are mods for this.
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Liii BLATES
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 4:24 pm

As always, there are mods for this.
Not for 2/3 of the fanbase.
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Bones47
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 6:23 pm

Not for 2/3 of the fanbase.
:stare: They are on the wrong platform...
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Chrissie Pillinger
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 3:37 pm

:stare: They are on the wrong platform...
Dat they are, but they must be given some stuff too.
I remember the console days, was one for years six months ago.
I remember how horrible it was to not be able to use mods.
So they should get some ways to customize their game. :)
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Emily Shackleton
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 8:58 am

Rather like the current difficulty setting as it is, but it could use a minor change up.
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Jessica Lloyd
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 7:09 pm

:stare: They are on the wrong platform...

Wow. Has anybody ever told you to get off your high horse?

Get off your high horse.
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GRAEME
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 9:11 pm

Wow. Has anybody ever told you to get off your high horse?

Get off your high horse.
Judging by the smiley I think he was imitating an elitist as a joke.
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Mari martnez Martinez
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 3:15 pm

One difference in RPGs (PnP or cRPG) is that of character accuracy with weapons. An opponent can survive several shots (some to the head) because those headshots could hit ear cartilage and the shots to the body could be scratches and nicks as well... it doesn't matter if the barrel was pressed to the target either; barrel position is for show. In an RPG it really is supposed to be them holding it, and their ability with the weapon; (that's why there is a skill for it instead of just point & shoot FPS). It gets awkward when put into a first person game with a mouse and the pixel-point accuracy of most players these days; accuracy not always in keeping with the character's abilities.

Of course, this can't be taken as a rule, only a generalized concept (that should not be too scrutinized).

For difficulty... well... Hitpoints are another of those generalized concepts. Hitpoints reflect an amalgam of resilliance, luck, and experience; and not 1:1 either. In an RPG the new recruit and the grizzled veteran commander can technically take the same bullet hit in the same place and time, yet the recruit (lacking experience) would more likely have that hit something vital, where the commander has been shot before and could be assumed to have (conciously or unconciously) been positioned better (harder to hit vitals) :shrug:, and gotten hit in the ear cartilage. :lol:

No its not true to life, but it is true to RPGs quite often. Hitpoints may or may not reflect pure 1:1 toughness of two opponents; but they can also be a kind rule padding that reflects life experience.

I don't think Difficulty should be scrapped. The game plays on Normal, and that's the official experience... Easy and Hard exist for those that would rather it. :shrug:
Giz, I think that's modeled pretty well still (accuracy) in weapon spread. But the effect you detail here, the nick to the ear stuff, is more like variable damage rather than fixed. You know, weapon does 10-20 dam instead of always does 16 dam each shot. I'm all for this to be (re)included. Some shots just aren't as lethal as other, just like real life. Still, that doesn't allow for a gamer's ability to tailor the damage spectrum to their tastes. I like the (dino) idea of damage sliders. Since that's all the difficulty sliders do now, just break them up so we can alter damage dealt and damage received seperately, with a few more ticks on the sliders for finer tuning. The game mechanic is already there, since difficulty modifier is already computed in each sucessful attack, they would just need to program in the larger range of damage and break 'em up into two sliders.

-Gunny
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Kevin S
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 2:42 pm

Dat they are, but they must be given some stuff too.
I remember the console days, was one for years six months ago.
I remember how horrible it was to not be able to use mods.
So they should get some ways to customize their game. :smile:
True, I remember when I pretty only much played games on the consoles and then I wasn't even completely sure what mods were. It'd be cool if there could be a mods section of the Xbox Live Marketplace or on PSN, but I doubt Sony or Microsoft would do it. Having too many mods would probably be taxing for the consoles.
Wow. Has anybody ever told you to get off your high horse?

Get off your high horse.
No, I like the view.
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ijohnnny
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 10:17 pm

It really should. It's an outdated method we no longer need. I was thinking about some older forum posts earlier and one I remembered in particular. A certain forum member here, who I won't name, said he played on Very Easy due to the fact he doesn't want to put up with emptying bullets into things. I don't blame him. Assassins just one shot people with pistols, yet you take 9 shots with a riot shotgun just to die? However, that's a little unfair on that guy's end. Sure, he can deal damage quickly and end fights as easily as they began, it doesn't mean that for the other party. The PC is now a bullet sponge. I propose that difficulty is scrapped altogether, but instead we have to options, one for how much damage we deal and how much we can take. This is essentially what difficulty does right now. It affects incoming damage and outgoing damage. So why not seperate it? If I want to deal maximum damage and take maximum damage, I should. Or if I want to lower maximum damage but take lower damage, or I could go for a challenge and go for low damage and high pain.

I think we would still have a difficulty name for them though. For example, damage output "Normal or Easy or Hard, instead of numbers because people may not see it as a difficulty.

What say you on this idea?


I've thought of this too, though after seeing New Vegas' amazing weapon balancing, I wonder how weapon balancing could survive under such a system.
I think I'mma go to J. Sawyer's formspring and ask him what he thinks of such a system.
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Ricky Rayner
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 9:01 am

AI: 1 Enemies are dumb, doesn't use grenades, chems or stimpaks and does not flank. 2 Enemies use grenades. 3 Enemies use grenades, chems and stimpaks. 4 Enemies use grenades, chems and stimpaks and they flank. 5 Enemies use everything at their disposal, they can sneak, flank and take cover
I think that part should NOT be customizeable. Enemies should be scalable with experience, but dumbing them down tactically would be a complete overkill.
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Luna Lovegood
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 7:25 am

I think that part should NOT be customizeable. Enemies should be scalable with experience, but dumbing them down tactically would be a complete overkill.
Then.... Simply raise the difficulty every 5 levels?
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maya papps
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 7:47 am

This is just madness fallout has already become too accessible and easy they should beef up the difficulty and make hardcoe mode permanent
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Lizs
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 3:57 pm

It really should. It's an outdated method we no longer need. I was thinking about some older forum posts earlier and one I remembered in particular. A certain forum member here, who I won't name, said he played on Very Easy due to the fact he doesn't want to put up with emptying bullets into things. I don't blame him. Assassins just one shot people with pistols, yet you take 9 shots with a riot shotgun just to die? However, that's a little unfair on that guy's end. Sure, he can deal damage quickly and end fights as easily as they began, it doesn't mean that for the other party. The PC is now a bullet sponge. I propose that difficulty is scrapped altogether, but instead we have to options, one for how much damage we deal and how much we can take. This is essentially what difficulty does right now. It affects incoming damage and outgoing damage. So why not seperate it? If I want to deal maximum damage and take maximum damage, I should. Or if I want to lower maximum damage but take lower damage, or I could go for a challenge and go for low damage and high pain.

I think we would still have a difficulty name for them though. For example, damage output "Normal or Easy or Hard, instead of numbers because people may not see it as a difficulty.

What say you on this idea?
It's a great idea! Probably be easy to implement, too. I want to be able to kill people with one or two shots, but at the same time I don't want to become a bullet sponge... sure I can just lower the difficulty and wear low DT armour, but that seems like such an inelegant solution.
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StunnaLiike FiiFii
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 7:29 pm

Giz, I think that's modeled pretty well still (accuracy) in weapon spread. But the effect you detail here, the nick to the ear stuff, is more like variable damage rather than fixed. You know, weapon does 10-20 dam instead of always does 16 dam each shot. I'm all for this to be (re)included. Some shots just aren't as lethal as other, just like real life. Still, that doesn't allow for a gamer's ability to tailor the damage spectrum to their tastes. I like the (dino) idea of damage sliders. Since that's all the difficulty sliders do now, just break them up so we can alter damage dealt and damage received seperately, with a few more ticks on the sliders for finer tuning. The game mechanic is already there, since difficulty modifier is already computed in each sucessful attack, they would just need to program in the larger range of damage and break 'em up into two sliders.

-Gunny
It is about variable damage (in RPGs as a genre, not just Fallout or TES)... In all truth I've no idea what the numerical DPS for any weapon in FO3 or NV actually is. I've never paid any attention, and what values I saw during play were forgotten minutes later.

I have to say though, that I have a real issue with difficulty sliders; and the idea that a player can play for a while, then turn the difficulty down for an encounter, then back up again. Myself, I would rather never finish a game at all, than to progress further by reducing the difficulty here and there ~IMO that's a cheat. I considered it so even in Fallout 1. :shrug:. I know there are those that don't quite 'get' how one can cheat in a single player game, but to me, cheating one's self is significant.

I don't mind setting the difficulty level at the start of a game. Best IMO to have it per PC... I liked how Icewind Dale 2 had "Heart of Fury" mode that actually had to be set outside of the game IIRC wth the game setup program. And it branded your characters. In HOF, the goblins in the first town had +29 to strike and damage. My PCs advanced 7 levels in less than an hour, and hadn't even ventured up the hill yet. :lol:; (Of course HOF is intended for playing the game again with your high level party, not starter PCs).
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Sophie Morrell
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 1:29 pm

It really should. It's an outdated method we no longer need. I was thinking about some older forum posts earlier and one I remembered in particular. A certain forum member here, who I won't name, said he played on Very Easy due to the fact he doesn't want to put up with emptying bullets into things. I don't blame him. Assassins just one shot people with pistols, yet you take 9 shots with a riot shotgun just to die? However, that's a little unfair on that guy's end. Sure, he can deal damage quickly and end fights as easily as they began, it doesn't mean that for the other party. The PC is now a bullet sponge. I propose that difficulty is scrapped altogether, but instead we have to options, one for how much damage we deal and how much we can take. This is essentially what difficulty does right now. It affects incoming damage and outgoing damage. So why not seperate it? If I want to deal maximum damage and take maximum damage, I should. Or if I want to lower maximum damage but take lower damage, or I could go for a challenge and go for low damage and high pain.

I think we would still have a difficulty name for them though. For example, damage output "Normal or Easy or Hard, instead of numbers because people may not see it as a difficulty.

What say you on this idea?

First off I just think it is hilarious that you have a COD avatar and propose the scrapping of difficulty, just made me chuckle. As for my answer, no I do not think it should be scrapped. The fact of the matter is my good chum, some people enjoy Fallout but do not like to be challenged and cannot be bothered with tinkering with variables and would rather choose between a sinlge preset. I play Fallout on hard and like it that way but just because that is how I prefer it that doesn't mean that I look down on people that like to play on Easy or Very Easy. That is all.
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Valerie Marie
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 12:56 pm

nope. no sliders. just easy, medium, hard and hardcoe. and you CANNOT change them once you start a new game. i hate playing on hard and hardcoe then bieng able to put it on easy at anytime. yes i restrain myself but the thought is always there, lingering like a bad smell.
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GabiiE Liiziiouz
 
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