Dilemma of power and enjoyment

Post » Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:59 pm

This may contain spoilers about the Imperial Legion.

So I have a problem, I am too powerful. I am pretty much immune to magic and I have more than 200 Strength and I oneshot nearly anything with my super weapons and magic and I am basically a god amongst men. I′ve often contemplated dumping my strength for sanctuary enchants to become invincible. But I′ve felt that it was boring enough to be so powerful and that I liked the encumbrance I have (it being over 1000) so I′ve decided to leave it.

Now lately I′ve had even more contemplations about removing my armor off me for worse armor so I can bring myself down to be able to enjoy fighting monsters such as golden saints and powerful wizards again.

But then came Varus Vantinius, I challenged him to a duel after rising in the ranks faster than any other person on Vvardenfell could ever rise. As usual for combat I grinned at him in the Arena in Vivec and waited for him to reach me, to be sporting to this champion I decided to allow him a few hits before obliterating him like any other foe I meet.

But then it came BAM! I fell, BAM! I was down to 10% of my health, at this moment I was thinking "HOLY *BEEP*, AM I REALLY GOING TO DIE ? DID HE DO THAT IN TWO HITS? REALLY!" I slowly rose and jumped back, my 18 points of constant health regeneration brought me up to half my health quickly when I decided to draw my weapon and charge him. And thus I went, I hit him and he got paralized and lost half his health, I hit him again and he died and by then my health was full again from the constant health regeneration. I huffed and puffed and sheathed my weapon, wiped the sweat of my forhead and said "I need more power..."

So the game is still throwing enemies that can cut through my armor class of 250 and present danger to me through my magical immunity and my 18 point health regeneration if I′m not careful enough to blast my enemies before they get me. And I have 3 options.

1. Get the 100% sanctuary, become a true god and never worry about a fight again, ever. This however makes me unable to carry as much as I can at this moment.
2. Stay as I am, immune to magic but challenged by the likes of Varus Vantinius.
3. Shed off my armor, embrace my weakness to magic and fight fair, but now being presented with the danger of getting killed by very strong opponent, but this would be very enjoyable yet it would go against the instinct of my characters personality as my character really hates being weak.

Any opinions or is this a question that is impossible to answer ? How do you as an experienced Morrowind player deal with this ?
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Lucky Girl
 
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Post » Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:59 am

Just a question: have you played bloodmoon expansion yet? There are far stronger enemies there.
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meg knight
 
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Post » Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:23 am

How do you as an experienced Morrowind player deal with this ?

If it's too easy, I mod it so it's harder. If it's too hard...I might leave it like that. Leveling up and overcoming a great challenge is rewarding in itself.
My opinion is that immortality is boring as hell. Instead of aiming for absolute protection and regeneration, try getting the middle ground. Something like 50% against magic, 50% Sanctuary and half the health regeneration you presently got. You'll still be mighty powerful, but challenge won't be such a rare event anymore.
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мistrєss
 
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Post » Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:55 am

Just a question: have you played bloodmoon expansion yet? There are far stronger enemies there.


Yeah, I two shot most of the enemies there, actually managed to get killed when I tried to take on 5 of the werewolfs during Hircines hunt at once but then I tried it again only killing two or three at once and it went smooth, and after all that′s just one event I can never partake in again.
If it's too easy, I mod it so it's harder. If it's too hard...I might leave it like that. Leveling up and overcoming a great challenge is rewarding in itself.
My opinion is that immortality is boring as hell. Instead of aiming for absolute protection and regeneration, try getting the middle ground. Something like 50% against magic, 50% Sanctuary and half the health regeneration you presently got. You'll still be mighty powerful, but challenge won't be such a rare event anymore.


I don′t want to mod too much since I have not finished every single quest yet, I want to experience Morrowind pretty much vanilla, only things I have changed is the robe of woe that is bugged in my opinion (if you sleep with more than 21 regen you die with it on... it′s like your other enchanted items go to sleep while you keep it on) and I gave Creeper 500.000 gold so I don′t have to spend like 16 days trying to sell a single grand soulgem with a Golden Saint in it.

So I will do as you suggest, I′m gonna shed some of my armor and go for half the protection and power I currently have, I should not only remove some defences though since my strength lets me take on enemies like Varus in two hits if I′m thinking "I′m gonna get the first hit" too easily. I′m a breton so I think I′m gonna remove all magical defences I have ATM and enchant myself with more "Shield" enchants or a bit of Sanctuary and replace my weapon with something I can buy from a vendor. No legendary weapons or custom weapons for me no thank you very much.

Thanks for the opinions but keep them comming :) if you are reading this and you have a suggestion, it′s always possible to improve upon something.
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Lindsay Dunn
 
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Post » Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:38 pm

You're seeing the problem with the inherent difference between "scaled" and "unscaled" opponents. The original MW game was never intended to be played with characters above about Level 20-30, and I'm pretty sure that yours is WAY beyond that. The rare "scaled" opponents in MW that you faced are insanely overpowered compared to the "routine" ones, only because of your drastically over-levelled character. The BM expansion was a partial answer to the problem, giving you more to do with a high-level character, but it doesn't fix the issues back on Vvardenfell. OB went with an excessively levelled and scaled world as an overcompensation for exactly this problem, so your issues are nothing new.

Personally, I'd consider it long overdue to start a fresh character.
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Killer McCracken
 
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Post » Fri Nov 27, 2009 1:16 am

You're seeing the problem with the inherent difference between "scaled" and "unscaled" opponents. The original MW game was never intended to be played with characters above about Level 20-30, and I'm pretty sure that yours is WAY beyond that. The rare "scaled" opponents in MW that you faced are insanely overpowered compared to the "routine" ones, only because of your drastically over-levelled character. The BM expansion was a partial answer to the problem, giving you more to do with a high-level character, but it doesn't fix the issues back on Vvardenfell. OB went with an excessively levelled and scaled world as an overcompensation for exactly this problem, so your issues are nothing new.

Personally, I'd consider it long overdue to start a fresh character.


You know I may just consider that, suppose I′ve been a bit tired of making new character since I had to go through 4 lost saved games before I managed to play the one I am on now, the first one went away because I had the save on a friends PC that was showing me the game way back, after that I took a break since I was a little too young for the game (I didn′t even know English so well back then) and years later I got my first PC that was crap so the 2nd saved game was lost because the PC crashed, I updated it and made a 3rd save that went away when I finally got a decent computer, and I forgot to get the save before I let my little brother have the old one, I formatted the PC for him without getting the saved data, and the 4th went away because my friend was trying to be funny and was pretty sure he could recover a saved game if he deleted it so when I wasn′t looking he decided to scare me by deleting my saves, and then when he tried to recover the saved games he spent half an hour finding out that he didn′t know how to do that...

On my 5th character now and the only one who went over level 20 (the others were all around 10 - 19) and it is level 40+ and pretty much rocks all, I jump over the landscape to get around flying over the puny mortals with immortality as an option at my whim as I count through my two million drakes and juggle my stack of artifacts, clear daedric armor and Azura′s Star.

So I′m off to make a new character now I think :D It′s pretty hard to say goodbye to my old one though :S so tied to it.
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BlackaneseB
 
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Post » Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:54 pm

You could spend some time in jail to get somewhat "humbled". That will take down some stats.
[edit] Just make a new save beforehand

I agree also...time for a new character. I never play one beyond level 35 or so because it gets boring.
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Imy Davies
 
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Post » Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:34 am

I solve the problem by not becoming too powerful in the first place. I also let my characters develo personal attachment to weaker weapons and I give them armor based on looks and style rather than AR. A good example is Voryn Indarys, my Dunmer Scout.

During his early levels he was given a Silver Longsword as reward for completing a misc quest (the quest was added by one of the LGNPC mods). And he stuck with the sword ever since and never exchanged it for another weapon. He is also proud of his Dunmer heritage and will only use traditional Dunmer armor: Chitin, Bonemold, Dreugh, Glass, Ebony. He specializes in medium armor so Dreugh and Bonemold were his main gear for a very long time. He has Light Armor as a minor skill so he's also been using Glass, but he doesn't use Heavy Armors so no Ebony. He owns an enchanted Daedric Longsword called Azura's Wrath, but that sword is holy and is not to be used for mere adventuring. He has only used it once, in the finale of the main quest.

Basically, my advice is to go beyond the numbers when selecting your equipment and find additional motivations for your characters to use items. The simplest way is to have a "patriot" character who prefers items made by his own race. Like my Voryn, or an Imperial who only uses Imperial armors and weapons (Chrysamere and Lord's Mail count as Imperial), or a Nord who only uses Nordic weapons and armors (Wolf, Bear, and Stalrhim armors would count as Nordic).
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Abi Emily
 
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Post » Fri Nov 27, 2009 1:20 am

I′ve decided to keep my female Breton half immortal and use her for times I just want to fool around and do crazy things, but I am also making other saved games with different sorts of characters who will have less space to play around (most of them will only be loyal to one faction or so)
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.X chantelle .x Smith
 
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Post » Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:37 pm

I handle it pretty much the way Dragatus does. I find uber characters to be incredibly boring, so I just don't let my characters get that way. In the early game, they're desperately trying to improve their gear and enchantments and spells and such, just to survive, but when they find something that they particularly like, just so long as it's powerful enough to not leave them too gimped, they tend to stay with it. The equipment they prefer becomes a part of their personalities. My last character - a Redoran Dunmer - spent most of the game either in Bonemold (for his work for the Temple) or in Black Shalk armor (a mod - it's a bit stronger than chitin and, not surprisingly, black) for the Morag Tong. My other Dunmer - a Hlaalu who fell in love with Ashlander culture and went native - wears pretty much nothing but netch/adamantium (a truly brilliant mod armor that I de-uberized a bit so that it's just what it sounds like it should be - about midway between netch and adamantium in strength, durability and weight). My current character, a Nord, is only level 5 at the moment, so he's making do in dark brotherhood armor and with a silver war axe. I'm not sure what he's going to wear along the way or quite where he's going to stop, but I'm pretty sure that he'll find it when he goes to Solstheim.

They all of course collect and keep all of the fabulous artifact pieces, and they generally get good at enchanting and do some custom pieces of their own, so when they set out on a really important quest, they might take the time to equip themselves with only the best and most powerful gear. That, to me, is part of the drama of it all - it's time to go to Red Mountain, so it's time to break out the Ebony Mail and the Fists of Randagulf and such - but for day-to-day life, they stick with fairly basic items, and all those immensely powerful artifacts are carefully stored away.

And I never - NEVER - use CE restore health or sanctuary or chameleon or anything like that. Those are gamebreakers as far as I'm concerned. They're not even the slightest bit fun.
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Nick Pryce
 
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Post » Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:48 pm

yeah, as people have said, its about limiting yourself to certain things. Especially avoiding obviously overpowered/gamebreaking stuff like over the top custom enchantments etc. Also, an easy way around it, is to start learning something new. With my current character (good ol' battlemage), I got to about level 19, and decided I had concentrated too much on long sword, so I decided to learn archery on the side while I brought my magic skills up to scratch.

Also, I find the fun thing about morrowind combat is the diversity; you can get quite imaginative with it (if you use alot of magic that is). For example, I might take down a group of enemies by using a little paralyze aoe and then a shock aoe to take everyone down a peg, before running in with a sword and shield to hack one down. By this time I probably would have taken some damage, so I might pull out an absorb health on touch to kill off a second enemy while regaining some health. Then I might cast paralyze on touch on another one, while beating the other one in the face with my fists etc etc. I try to make combat as varied and interesting as possible by playing like that, especially using the weird obscure spells like command/turn etc

when it gets too obviously easy, I usually put the difficulty slider up and then move on to the expansions/quest mods. Also creatures x makes the vardenfell alot harder too.
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Andrew Lang
 
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Post » Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:36 pm

For me, the very first thing I do is never worry about the numerical values. Once I create a character, he isn't "Eirik, level 1 plebian with 35 Marksman and no resistance to Magics", he is just "Eirik", prisoner just released from the Imperial ship with the charge of delivering a package, or throwing it in the river Odai and following his nose.

At that level, if I can hit a rat with a arrow I consider myself lucky. If I get proficient enough to hit everything I aim at, I still know that there will be times when I will take an arrow from a group of outcasts at a campfire. So I rely on some stealth, maybe a bit of medium armor, and good ol' fashioned luck.

Once I am in character, it is about the journey, not the honorifics or illusion of immortality by numerical stats. If there is one thing everyone learns early on about even being the Nerevarine, is that Immortal is not synonymous with invulnerable, unless you are one for consoling a God Mode. Even then, for those that do such a thing, I daresay 10 minutes with a Dulsya Mod rewritten Skeleton Archer (into Baley Jones Pirate Archers) will show you just how ineffective even a "TGM" would be against a superior modded killing undead.

Point is that if you try and "get into the head" of your character, as the person more than the object, you'll see pretty much that many dangers will level up and offer a challenge, and that even with the best of armor and the best of sword or bow, you can indeed be hurt. If it seems like it isn't that much of a challenge, nothing in gaming rules or universe would prevent you from defending or challenging an opponent with "less than efficient" weapons and armor. I once took a knife to a Telvanni Mage fight, and while the character nearly bought the farm, I did manage to kill him via multiple stabs. Would I do that all the time? No...I don't think so, Terrible view looking at the feet of your enemy when they've depleted your ability to block and you're knocked to the floor.
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James Hate
 
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Post » Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:46 pm

[...] I daresay 10 minutes with a Dulsya Mod rewritten Skeleton Archer (into Baley Jones Pirate Archers) will show you just how ineffective even a "TGM" would be against a superior modded killing undead.

Somehow, I completely missed this mod. I even went back to check on my compatibility maps and there it was, Dulsya Isle. After having only a quick peek in the CS, I feel I must thank you for making me aware of its existence. So... thank you!
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phil walsh
 
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Post » Fri Nov 27, 2009 2:22 am

Update! I made myself a character with a very specific concept. I will not use ANY constant effect enchants and I will not raise my fighting stats. I made a female imperial with these
Major Skills: Enchant - Speechcraft - Merchantile - Alchemy - Armorer
Minor Skills: Athletics - Acrobatics - Heavy Armor - Light Armor - Unarmored
So the concept is that I only use "on use" enchants, that is no constant effect and no on strike, and I don′t cast spells (except one, the spell that comes with the tower birthsign) and I don′t fight with melee. Why ? Because Veranda the female imperial just doesn′t know these things, she likes trinkets and nice clothes, especially enchanted and she likes drawing the power from them but she has no talent with spells and no physical prowess to speak of for combat or stealth. Well she knows armorer but I pretend she′s just sowing her dresses back together after particularly nasty encounters with Rats and Kwama Foragers.

She likes skipping around and running but as her real passion is for magical trinkets and clothing she will do anything to aquire them, her first bet was joining the Mages Guild and where she will go from there, who knows ? The Telvanni perhaps ? At least some place with clothes and trinkets.

She will most likely end up with a ton in Enchanting skill at an early age but she will never become too strong I think if I don′t allow her to get skilled in other things.

Only worry is too strong on use scrolls and enchants but I′m gonna try ignore it if they are too strong, I′m sticking with this concept at least until it becomes too easy if it ever becomes too easy at all :D
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adame
 
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Post » Fri Nov 27, 2009 1:46 am

so basically you'll just be using scrolls and enchanted non-weapon items to deal with all combat?? yeah that will definitely be a challenge, lol. probably a very frustrating one too.
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KIng James
 
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Post » Fri Nov 27, 2009 2:03 am

so basically you'll just be using scrolls and enchanted non-weapon items to deal with all combat?? yeah that will definitely be a challenge, lol. probably a very frustrating one too.


:D But the enjoyment is in the frustration of meeting every challenge, a pair of Breeding Kagouti′s killed me today and I loved it :D Ended up taking them down by first casting my tower birth-sign spell so I′d know their position better, then faced them with a scroll of summon Skeleton, I pulled out my restore fatigue necklace and cast it to get fatigue and then used the Skeleton scroll, the Skeleton kept one from me but the other one charged me but I had a scroll that killed it with frost damage, granted I took hits since I used my shirt of soul trap on it first, but Fargoths Ring healed me giving me time to prepare the shirt of soul trap again for the next one and as my Skeleton died I had another damaging scroll ready to take that one down.

:( I didn′t notice my lesser soul-gems could not contain their souls though... but I did get some Kagouti hides for my Alchemy :D

The biggest struggle is money however but I′m enjoying it a lot, and then again my best attribute is personality and I have a lot of speech-craft and mercantile skill so I get things cheap, made 9 gold of Ajira when she sent me out with 10 gold pieces to buy a ceramic bowl I only needed 1 gold to buy :P

Gonna keep playing for a while now and I will tell if this ends up being more OP than I originally gave it credit for or not.
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Luis Longoria
 
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Post » Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:16 pm

Don't be fooled into thinking that 100 sanctuary makes you invincible.... I got killed by werewolves before with Sanctuary OVER 100. How... I'll never understand.
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Sheeva
 
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Post » Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:09 am

Don't be fooled into thinking that 100 sanctuary makes you invincible.... I got killed by werewolves before with Sanctuary OVER 100. How... I'll never understand.

It's not percentage, it's a factor in chance to hit. The problem is that if your opponent has a much higher chance to hit than you, he'll hit you anyway. The factors are weapon skill, agility, luck, sanctuary and attack. There's an exact formula on UESP.
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gemma king
 
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Post » Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:27 pm

Difficulty maxed, unarmored, hand to hand, and limited to zero enchanted items. That has to be the most honorable way to down foes. If you're still too strong, then I guess it's time to start a new character or play a new game if you hate being too strong. Have you played the expansions?
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Oscar Vazquez
 
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