Disappearence of the Dwarves(Dwemer)

Post » Mon Nov 08, 2010 5:56 pm

Would they have to have been built per say? Could it not be something like Umbra where the sword is in a fashion sentient. Could there in fact be a way to incorparate a soul to do a specific task and bind it to the centurians and so on? I would say there is something a bit strange going on as they tend to often do their own things even when they are rebuilt fram parts as the ones were in Mournhold. In a way they act like a summon they got out of control. Summons are critters that do have their own minds but are under the control of the caster well they are supposed to be. Just an idea.
User avatar
Josh Trembly
 
Posts: 3381
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:25 am

Post » Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:03 am

I suppose that raises another possibility - point taken on the Tesla thing tho Weird, good explanation there...

OK we know the Dwemer were trying to combine themselves - their souls - with Numidium to make themselves a God. Perhaps the sentient part of the Centurions are souls - Dwemer souls. Which of course leads to another possibility, to take it a stage furhter - that, unable to inhabit Numidium, the Dwemer instead were forced into the forms of other machinery - their own Centurions? Of course this is undermined however by Vivec's assertion that he can't sense the Dwemer - but who cares what he thinks eh? ehhh? :D

To lead this in another direction I wouldn;t mind discussing those ruins under Mournhold - anyone got any theories about this one? Was it misuse of the weather machine that destroyed these particular Dwemer? And what the hell do a people who live underground want with a weather machine anyway?!
User avatar
Makenna Nomad
 
Posts: 3391
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 10:05 pm

Post » Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:41 am

It has been a while since I have posted on this subject (or on any subject on these forums) and would like to thank all who have continued to post their thoughts.
What was basic Dwemer life like?
User avatar
Saul C
 
Posts: 3405
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:41 pm

Post » Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:03 am

Its been a while since I brushed up on my tamerilic lore so some of my information may be incorrect, but please tell me your views(i.e. revisions, corrections, and general comments pn what you think.)

The dwemer, or dwarves for those unfamiliar, died at the battle of red mountain, with the exception of a few mainly the man in the corpusarium. I do not believe however that there are none left. The first reason being that people adventure so why not hace dwemer traveling across Nirn. Another scenario involving dwemer movement is that they moved for more resources. I think it would be a great expansion or another game if dwemer who were hiding from the battle(women and children) or those who have been traveling return to tamriel.

Think of the possibilities this could offer.
1. Big new event = dawning of the fourth age
2. New technologies, how awesome would it be for a simple railway system. This could work for heists fast travel and well numerous other missions. (also lay down land mines like the ones from tribunal. that would add some interesting gameplay.)
3. Play as a dwemer. A race that is as tall as bosmer, but with intelligence and strength.

This mod could add into morrowind or simply have the dwemer returning all around tamriel. Why not have them build in mines and recover ore and then have a dwemer civilization.

I think this is a great idea and it does seem possible just think of the dwemer form morrowinds main quest.

Some pretty good ideas, but the Dwemer were actually tall, around the heightof Imperials. There were giants that lived near them or something that recorded them as short.
User avatar
Ice Fire
 
Posts: 3394
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:27 am

Post » Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:44 pm

Did you not play Morrowind? A good deal of Mages Guild and Telvanni quests had to do with retrieving Dwemeri artifacts. There is a great deal of study relating to the Dwemer going on, it's just that nobody knows how to use their machines or in many cases even what their purpose was. There is one account in Morrowind of a Spider Centurion being taken from Vvardenfell to the mainland that stopped moving after they reached a certain point, only to start moving again when the captain got the idea to turn the ship around.

Yet not once in non-cut content is it pointed out that Aryon's Dwemer Museum contains the blueprint for Numidium.

We don't know for sure Dwemer were destroyed, as they did not leave corpses behind, yet they left ghosts behind.
User avatar
OnlyDumazzapplyhere
 
Posts: 3445
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:43 am

Post » Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:17 am

We don't know for sure Dwemer were destroyed, as they did not leave corpses behind, yet they left ghosts behind.

Or they became ghosts before the rest disappeared.
User avatar
victoria gillis
 
Posts: 3329
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:50 pm

Post » Mon Nov 08, 2010 4:35 pm

This is my take on it, considering the hidden message in Sermon Zero(?) and the info referring to them "becoming" the Anumidum: basically, the bodies of the Dwemer were thrown into Oblivion (which would somewhat prove how Dremora walk around with Dwarven artifacts) but their SOULS went into the Numidium.

This is what I think, but I can't necessarily explain how ghosts still walk around. Dead Dwemer that died before the First Council War? Maybe even during?
User avatar
~Amy~
 
Posts: 3478
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:38 am

Post » Mon Nov 08, 2010 5:13 pm

The Dwemer weapons really just are a gameplay thing. It prevents the player from being beaten to easily and keeps the big wealth out of their hands. At least in theory because in practice it never worked out like that.

The bodies turned to ash. You can still see it in Bamz-Amschend.
User avatar
loste juliana
 
Posts: 3417
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:37 pm

Post » Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:45 pm

Then why does Sermon Zero (I think?) say that they were flung into Oblivion? I'm not really contesting what you're saying, but am somewhat annoyed that a piece of lore is technically wrong.
User avatar
T. tacks Rims
 
Posts: 3447
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:35 am

Post » Mon Nov 08, 2010 1:04 pm

Then why does Sermon Zero (I think?) say that they were flung into Oblivion? I'm not really contesting what you're saying, but am somewhat annoyed that a piece of lore is technically wrong.

Sermon Zero was a joke for MK first, and lore second. It's the http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=762514&hl=WWPD? of Morrowind.

Edit: And WWPD? was a lot more fun.
User avatar
Timara White
 
Posts: 3464
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:39 am

Post » Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:45 pm

Aside from that, the idea of wrong and right don't quite apply. There is no absolute source of authority in Tamriel and as such there is no absolute knowledge.

Now Sermon Zero isn't the only source that claims something specific about the disappearance of the Dwemer. Xal and Baladas both also have their stories, not only do they go much more indepth their explanations are also very close together and in line with other clues.

As such an unattributed riddle book, never the less, there are some interesting hidden things referenced in Sermon Zero.
User avatar
Sara Lee
 
Posts: 3448
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:40 pm

Post » Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:15 am

As such an unattributed riddle book, never the less, there are some interesting hidden things referenced in Sermon Zero.

Don't get me wrong, WWPD was 90% jokes but one of MK's posts made me crazy about First Era Nedes.
User avatar
Eliza Potter
 
Posts: 3481
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:20 am

Post » Mon Nov 08, 2010 4:32 pm

would it have been possibul for them to move continants say to atmora :spotted owl:
User avatar
Jade Barnes-Mackey
 
Posts: 3418
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:29 am

Post » Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:11 pm

The Nedes "evolved" and sorta "melded" into modern humans, I'm sure. Didn't they "meld" so to speak with Nords from Atmora?
User avatar
Tyrel
 
Posts: 3304
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:52 am

Post » Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:37 pm

The Nedes "evolved" and sorta "melded" into modern humans, I'm sure. Didn't they "meld" so to speak with Nords from Atmora?

Culturally as much as racially, and there's nothing left of their heritage today, if Bethesda's bland Cyrodiil is to be believed.
User avatar
Gemma Flanagan
 
Posts: 3432
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:34 pm

Post » Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:54 pm

The Nedes "evolved" and sorta "melded" into modern humans, I'm sure. Didn't they "meld" so to speak with Nords from Atmora?

You make racial mixing sound positively exotic.
User avatar
Carlitos Avila
 
Posts: 3438
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:05 pm

Post » Mon Nov 08, 2010 1:03 pm

You make racial mixing sound positively exotic.


Heh, that's mainly because I don't fully understand what really happened to them yet. :P
User avatar
Michelle Chau
 
Posts: 3308
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 4:24 am

Post » Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:28 am

Dwemeri technology isn't simply machines and math; it's also the knowledge of how to break Earthbones and channel divine powers into the profane. Only they knew how to do such things. Yagrum Bagarn might be able to teach it, but he has refused, even going so far as to hide Kagrenac's journal so that their ways could not be learned again.

---

However, the Battle of Red Mountain threw their plans into disarray. Kagrenac, desperate to save his work, his people, and his god, created the Spirit as the battle was lost to them; Yagrum returned to find Numidium claimed by the Tribunal, to be disassembled, the gestalt of Dwemeri spirits still asleep. So Yagrum wandered for three millennium, perhaps searching for a way to free his people. When he returned to Red Mountain, however, he was struck down by Corprus. By the time the Nerevarine came with the Tools, it was already too late to save Numidium, and so he attempted to stop the evil that had stemmed from their lost works.


Alright, I see your point. Now I have some more questions.
1. What happened to the "remains" of the Numidium?
2. I can't for the life of me remember where Yagrum went, so where was it? Could other Dwemeri have been away as well?
3. Where is Kagrenac's journal and can it be retrieved?
User avatar
Claire Jackson
 
Posts: 3422
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:38 pm

Post » Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:26 pm

1) afaik, they are chillin' at the bottom of the Iliac.
2) um, not sure we know. some other dimension. afair, he was sent away to press the ON switch and initiate the last step of their acendance, but that didnt happen cause of the dunmer getting control of the heart. not sure about all this, someone back me up.
3)i believe it was somewhere in one of the red mountain citadels, and yes, it can be retrieved. http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/kagrenacs_journal.shtml.
User avatar
Tiffany Castillo
 
Posts: 3429
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:09 am

Post » Mon Nov 08, 2010 1:47 pm

1. What happened to the "remains" of the Numidium?
2. I can't for the life of me remember where Yagrum went, so where was it? Could other Dwemeri have been away as well?
3. Where is Kagrenac's journal and can it be retrieved?

1. Vivec gave it to Tiber Septim, where it was eventually destroyed...
2. He was in the "Outer Realms". Unlikely, Vivec says that he can't sense them
3. It is in Endusal and yes it can be retrieved, you can also find it at http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/kagrenacs_journal.shtml
User avatar
Trish
 
Posts: 3332
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:00 am

Post » Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:47 pm

1. Vivec gave it to Tiber Septim, where it was eventually destroyed...
2. He was in the "Outer Realms". Unlikely, Vivec says that he can't sense them
3. It is in Endusal and yes it can be retrieved, you can also find it at http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/kagrenacs_journal.shtml

About Vivec not being able to sense them. Did Vivec sense Yagrum Bagarn, or did he sense no Dwemer?
User avatar
Erin S
 
Posts: 3416
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:06 pm

Post » Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:58 pm

About Vivec not being able to sense them. Did Vivec sense Yagrum Bagarn, or did he sense no Dwemer?

    "I have no idea what happened to the Dwemer. I have no sense of them in the timeless divine world outside of mortal time. And, in fact, if I did believe they existed, I would be in no hurry to make contact with them. They may, with some justice, hold the Dunmer race responsible for their fate. My intuition is that they are gone forever -- and that is perfectly fine with me."--Vivec

He doesn't mention Yagrum, but that may very well be because he's aware you know about Yagrum and doesn't feel the need to point out something you're already aware of...


Also, wow, talk about an old thread - but hey, you're the OP, do as you like.
User avatar
Nicholas
 
Posts: 3454
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:05 am

Post » Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:35 pm

Welcome back

There's a novel, by the way.
User avatar
Solina971
 
Posts: 3421
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:40 am

Post » Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:12 am

    "I have no idea what happened to the Dwemer. I have no sense of them in the timeless divine world outside of mortal time. And, in fact, if I did believe they existed, I would be in no hurry to make contact with them. They may, with some justice, hold the Dunmer race responsible for their fate. My intuition is that they are gone forever -- and that is perfectly fine with me."--Vivec

He doesn't mention Yagrum, but that may very well be because he's aware you know about Yagrum and doesn't feel the need to point out something you're already aware of...


Also, wow, talk about an old thread - but hey, you're the OP, do as you like.

This makes me think that Vivec might be a little racist, or at least biased toward the Dunmer. All I am suggesting is that since he is the god of the Dunmer he wants them to be safe so that he can continue to be worshiped. It is possible that Vivec does in fact sense the Dwemer, but is simply lying in order to keep his position as God of the Dunmer. Maybe Vivec's disappearance during the Oblivion crisis was so that he might seek out the Dwemer for their more technological approach to Nirn so that they might help fight the daedra, which Vivec knows of the Dwemer have a hatred.

Also, thanks for welcoming me back. This is an old thread and it has been a long time since I posted.
User avatar
Bek Rideout
 
Posts: 3401
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 7:00 pm

Post » Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:47 pm

This makes me think that Vivec might be a little racist, or at least biased toward the Dunmer. All I am suggesting is that since he is the god of the Dunmer he wants them to be safe so that he can continue to be worshiped. It is possible that Vivec does in fact sense the Dwemer, but is simply lying in order to keep his position as God of the Dunmer. Maybe Vivec's disappearance during the Oblivion crisis was so that he might seek out the Dwemer for their more technological approach to Nirn so that they might help fight the daedra, which Vivec knows of the Dwemer have a hatred.

The Dunmer are racist, its sorta their thing. Remember constantly getting called "n'wah" and "outlander" when you played Morrowind? And of course it also plays in that Vivec is a Dunmer god, and that the last time he saw a Dwemer he was probably running it through with a spear.

As for whether he lies, its possible, but unlikely. We know what happens to him after Morrowind according to http://www.imperial-library.info/characters/trial_vivec.shtml, we have a pretty good idea of what happened to the Dwemer, and lastly the Dwemer didn't hate the Daedra by any means they simply refused to accept them as what everybody else did. The Daedra were a curiosity, a puzzle, they were fabrications (albeit ones with great power) - they were not hated, they just weren't gods.

One last note: as long as the people worship Vivec he can keep them safe, rather than vis-versa.
User avatar
Everardo Montano
 
Posts: 3373
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:23 am

PreviousNext

Return to The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion