I'd have to say that if multiple posters can all hammer on the same "immershun LULZ" nonsense, then I can respond to it. If it's off-topic, at least I wasn't the one who introduced the new topic.

And regarding immersion - why do you think that Argonians hail from a land with a name and a history and have a history of their own, rather than just being "lizard dudes?" Why do you think that all those books in the games actually have things written in them instead of just being objects? Why do you think that tables have plates and cups and utensils on them? Why do you think that it rains and thunders and the sun shines and sunsets cast pretty colors on things and goblins make horrble screeching sounds and NPC conversations happen and people are married to each other and live with each other and complain about other people living with each other and get up in the morning and go places and do things? Why do you think there are days and hours and minutes and distances and bridges and paths and roads and soldiers and guards and noble people and crazy people and secret torture chambers and dinner parties? Why do you think that all the myriad details that exist in the games exist?

I'll give you one hint - the answer starts with an "I" and has been consistently misspelled in most of the posts that have mentioned it.

I'd imagine that Argonian children sound like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhjRUKCKIG4

I don't see the big deal. If you don't want children in the game, just wait for a mod to come out. I bet there will be a child remover mod after the first hundred nvde body mods and dragon friendship/riding mods.

I don't think I'll ever win when it comes to debating with you

While I agree on your point and I do realize the significance, the point I'm trying to make that's pertaining to the topic of this thread is that people are taking immersion too far when it comes to children. Making them invincible and disappearing when they enter cells to avoid fights isn't "non-immersive" to me, it's just good/clever gameplay mechanics employed by Bethesda to avoid the Media thunderstrom that usually comes when videogames and kids are mixed.

And I can use my imagination/RP to fill in the holes, so to speak, so I don't see a huge issue here.

I personally removed the child immunity on FO3, because if I want to go on a killing spree it doesn't make sense that the children would magically be spared ( plus who are we trying to kid acting like they would survive along after you killed everyone off)





FO3 Spoiler:




Besides FO3 allowed you to sell children into slavery in the base game... a fact that impressed me by its inclusion.


My personal hope is Skyrim has at least a few of these types of morally wrong and abhorrent situations available within it

i'd like to know why we can't talk about child mortality/immortality. i just want to know why they're invincible...please don't ban me.

being against children isnt being against immersion. they don't attribute immersion to any one but the very few people who complain that the lack of bathrooms in TES is immersion breaking. and yes, I group children and bathrooms together, FO3 had them both, TES needs neither.

Because... It's morally wrong to talk about that..?

If they were not invincible, Bethesda would get an AAA rating, or whatever it's called.

That's bad, m'kay.

Yup, it would get an AO rating, which would pretty much kill the game. Most retailers won't even put your game on their shelf with that rating.

they normally don't care about esrb ratings but they also don't want to be the poster child for the crusade against violent video games.

... but you could sell a child into slavery in FO3... odds are it was sixual slavery at that.... how is that any worse

I think the simplest solution was mentioned on the first reply: Just don't have children in the game.


Censorship is evil.

That is the least desirable outcome they could have regarding children. I'd rather have all children be world stomping genies than have no children like MW.

I know what you're talking about, even when i decided to play a ruthless evil runthrough i found it hard to do

Children should be seen and not hurt

I personally really love that there will finally be actual children. After seeing the few awkward attempts at younger people in Oblivion... same voices and looks as the advlts, aside from being slightly lesser in height... bleh... I really hope that there are more than just 10-15 of them, as mentioned. As for the idea of them running off and just disappearing for a long while when around any combat... eh, I don't know... seems kind of overboard. I picture they're 'safety' being dealt with in a combination of a few things, some already mentioned.

1: The child population is only really prevalent in/around cities/towns, and in smaller settlements throughout the rest of the world. This makes fighting occur much less often around them.

2: Even if dragons attack these areas, the children will just run into the nearest interior cell.. (as I imagine a lot of other NPCs will do as well).. keeping them safe from stray fireballs and battle, but not totally just disappearing.

3: If a fireball happens to reach a child's vicinity, they're invincible anyway, and will just carry on inside. (I'm not planning on attacking children anyway, so the invincibility doesn't even phase me and I really won't notice it at all unless a freak moment like that happens)

4: You will not be able to swing/shoot your weapon while facing a child.

5: Even when you are attacking around them at someone else, the magnetism Skyrim is introducing should really help keep attacks from going near the children.

6: Upon engaging another NPC in combat, the children will run away into the nearest interior/exterior cell... away from the fighting... depending on where you started the fight with someone else. Once again, without disappearing. If you followed them inside, they would just run back out and away.

7: ... well, hopefully you get my point by now. I'm sure the Devs are doing what they have to in order to keep most level-minded people from freaking out when they see a child amongst the honestly innocent and in-the-end, video game simulated, battles. I mean, I get awfully immersed into my games, especially TES... (I already have 3 characters planned out with huge background stories and all, I'm ready to dig in)... but, not enough to feel like I'd seriously even be scarring an actual child's "ignorant and blissful" mind.

I see what you did there...

Yup. Agree.

I'd be fine with all of that. Having children is important enough to the games that I would allow all sorts of barriers like these to be placed so a person wouldn't abuse them in some way.

im sorry, took me awhile to stop laughing from you saying children are pure and innocent.

what world do you live in?

i havent seen a pure, innocent child in... uh... do they even exist?

i wont bring it up on these forums, but seriously... go read the news now and again, you'll see CHILDREN doing things more despicable than most grown men out there...

now, back on topic... as i just said, children are definitely not innocent these days, so why should they be all pure and innocent in a land like skyrim? especially when dragons are about and the end of the world is coming soon thanks to alduin...

im not saying the kids should stand there and laugh like the kids from the anime "higurashi", they can scream and run away, but why disappear from the world while you attack people?

they should just run off and hide, like in fallout 3... they could then just wander around and survive off of the land, or whatever bethesda feels is appropriate and family-friendly.

maybe magical boxes of endless food and comfort could be granted to them by the gods? :rolleyes:

These are fantasy children after all, innocent and magically invincible

They should do it like FO 2(and 1 maybe, I can't remember). With the negative rep title and everything.

Interesting... my topic on this matter was locked, however this one is deemed perfectly acceptable because it's worded in a slightly less direct way?

Anyway, as I've said before - if Bethesda are too scared to do something controversial that might lift this silly taboo, they should just leave children out of the game altogether. Having a load of immortal NPCs running around spoils the immersion. At the very least, they should make it so that they can be knocked unconscious in the same way that important NPCs in Oblivion could be knocked unconscious.

It's such a pathetic issue though, and in the year 2011 it's hard to believe that people are still so sensitive to such things. Rockstar and others have pushed the boundaries a lot when it comes to freedom in games... but obviously we're not quite at total freedom yet. :/

The only positive thing about children for me is seeing Argonian and Khajiit kids, and that's it. I'd trade the addition of kids anytime for a more mature content in Tes.

Basically this. People who claim it sick to kill kids but perfectly acceptable to kill everyone else are the ones that need to rethink their position.

I do not really get any joy out of it. But I don't want to know there's loads of invincible people running around just because they haven't hit puberty. When you're 18 do you suddenly lose all innocence and are deemed more worthy of death? What a terrible, nasty idea.

However, we are running the risk of this being closed. So I'll just say I'd rather them not be in, and I definitely don't want more silly things to protect their 'innocence', like magical disappearances everytime someone pulls out a sword.

This.

This [censored] was already done in FO1 and 2. And if people are really that sensitive to this, add an option to make children invincible.