This is probably the most common type of topic. I started playing FO:NV. It was fantastic. I'm a complete and total die hard Fallout fan. I mean i pre ordered and bought NV before there were even rumors it was coming out. I had to wait 5 months before it came out to get it. Now here is my problem. Its lacking. I can't put my finger on it. I can play FO3 for HOURS and not get bored. In FO:NV however i don't even have that much of a desire to explore. I couldn't help but notice that there is ALOT of unused map. Is it because they got lazy? Are they leaving room for future DLCs? What? In FO3 the entire map was used there were even places that were technically just past the border of it. My question is does anyone have the same feelings........?

A lot of people have the same feeling.
Why don't you point out something unique about your disappointment though, instead of just starting a thread saying you are generally disappointed.

I'm not sure what Fallout New Vegas game YOU'RE playing, but Mine has map markers out the ass. I'm STILL finding new places.

Your talking about unused map while defending Fallout 3?

EDIT: There's hardly one spot in the Mojave Wasteland where there isn't a location marker <3.

Yeah, to bad all those map markers have nothing to do at their locations. Oh yeah, cool I am coming up on another map marker..... uhhh wait, its filled with buildings and a barn, to bad the buildings are all locked and the barn has no loot. Just another marker to help you fast travel around an empty map world.

Maybe so, but it doesn't really make a difference considering that a map marker can be nothing more than a dead pack Brahmin and most map markers are a small or even one room building with little to no one in it.

Well

Pros of FO NV-
Lots and lots of quest
A large variety in environments, its not just desert like in Fallout 3
Lots and lots of different guns and melee weapons
Companion system is a lot better
Speech, barter, and those type of skills are actually useful in many cases unlike in fallout 3
Faction systems adds many more choices in the game
Ending battle is still epic as always

Cons-
Invisible walls and death claws and high level monsters that make me feel restricted in a supposed to be open world game
You dont get to see/use many of the cool guns till latr on in the game.
Energy weapons could have more variety
Lots and lots of talking
You cant officially join a faction, only do freelance work for them
You cant use certain faction items (NCR Emergency radio) if your wearing faction armor, even if their own faction armor
You cant but or get some of the really cool looking armor without killing/ doing some trick to get people not to wear it. Such as the NCR Vet ranger armor or the Power Armor of NCR
Map seems smaller

OP, are you a die hard Fallout Series fan or a die hard Fallout 3 fan? I'm only asking because NV has a lot more to offer fans of the series than Fallout 3 did, while people expecting the same type of game as Fallout 3 (focused more on being a sandbox than an RPG) are probably going to be disappointed. I personally like NV a lot better than FO3, but that's because I'm more of a core gameplay and interaction sort of player than a "spend 300 hours collecting Wonderglue" sort of player. There's nothing wrong with one or the other...I think it just depends on what kind of experience you were expecting.

1. So you've played Fallout 1 and 2?

2. The actual size of the game-world might be slightly smaller than FO3's, it's only that the map gives the illusion that it is 40% smaller than FO3's gameworld. On the other hand, they have little to no dungeons this time around, so I think this might be why you don't find it fun to explore.

Woah, woah, woah... this is way off.
If you are a core gameplay and interaction sort of player... what kind of gameplay are you referring to?
- the kind where you stand in front of an NPC and pick from dialogue boxes?

Fallout 3 had gameplay, because there was a game... to play.

New Vegas IS a game where you collect 1,000lbs of inventory with nothing to use it on. The inventory in New Vegas is superior to Fallout 3, but to no point since there aren't any dungeons or time where you'd need to use or rely on that inventory.

You put it a little crudely but that's been my overwhelming experience . . . kinda like the ruins of DC in FALLOUT3 with those hundreds of boarded-up buildings. At least the Wastes were packed with stuff, radio signals, raiders, weapon caches, bobbleheads (there's supposed to be implants in NEW VEGAS? Good thing I read about it in the guide 'cause I ain't come across a single one - or mention of one. And snow globes, apparently. Again, not a trace. - compare with FALLOUT3: first bobblehead right there on your dad's desk: now you now they at least exist!)

Seriously though. I'm still on my second set of armor at level 16, and all my starting guns save one. Why? Frak if I know! It's all I keep finding. Are there weapons schematics? Dunno. I know there are unique weapons (some trader had "that gun") but slap my behind if I've come across anything not nailed down / belonging to a friendly NPC. No hints, no mentions, no rumours . . . not a peep.

Where is the good stuff?

Guess I should go exploring . . . except without the good stuff and with the same armor for the last 10 levels, *armies* of mobs always turn me to a sticky paste. The circle of life is broken, people!

Ive got like 8 unique guns =/

I think what was meant by 'core gameplay and interaction' is that... at heart... the game has more to offer people who want a STORY and PROGRESS in their game, rather than simply wandering about the wastelands aimlessly. You are handed a VERY straightforward mission from the get go, and there are half a million bug-riddled ways in which to carry that out.

Fallout 3's mission consisted of wandering up to Smith Casey Garage at level four, rescuing dad, watching dad die, killing some super mutants, killing some Enclave, rinse... repeat... sacrifice yourself for the greater good.

In all of that, Fallout 3's -only- redeeming bit of quality storytelling is that your Dad is actually a character in the game. For minutes. Worse, he's not even all that compelling. To go through all the trouble of having Liam Neeson voice the character, they certainly didn't capitalize on the possibility that players might actually like to have some CONTINUING family ties as they go through their journey.

It was probably the -only- improvement to gameplay Bethesda introduced to Fallout... and they skimped out on it!

That being said, I loved Fallout 3 -despite- it's story, not because of it. Fallout 3 is to my love of the Fallout Universe as Morrowind is to my love of the Elder Scrolls universe. The story isn't even compelling enough to make me WANT to play it... so instead I insert my own. It's so vague and open-ended in the long run, that when it all boils down to it they may as well have not had any. I spend my time wandering through endless wasteland ruins, collecting food and water and supplies necessary to keep myself alive. I fend off Super Mutants, protect my friends and companions, and eventually usually end up settling myself a nice little town, city, or empire off in the hills of the North.

Fallout: New Vegas... actually makes me ENJOY playing the story out. It's simple enough to get into that it doesn't REQUIRE the player to feel fake sensation of emotion. There really is ONE sensation that goes through the mind. Some ********** just ********'in' shot me in the damn HEAD! I'm gonna find that ********** and make him ********in' pay!"

It doesn't require me to adopt a false persona... or determine my character's childhood friendships... then pull the rug out from under me and have these things be MEANINGLESS.

It gives me the chance to define my character's own role, carry on through the storyline, explore the ruins of civilization out West in First Person... and along the way kill whatever poor SoB gets in my line of sight.


There's plenty to collect... and even more to USE that collected stuff on. You just have to be LOOKING for it, rather than mindlessly stumbling across it.

Fallout 3 was vast... but New Vegas is -DELIBERATELY- designed. It's the middle of the desert. They MADE the game... set... in the middle of the desert. What you see... is what you would REALLY get, should the bombs drop tomorrow.

If that's not good enough for you, hell... I guess I understand. It's not unreasonable to want MORE.

It's just not going to do you any good to -complain- about it... you know? Don't sweat the small stuff. Life has little disappointments all throughout it. Sometimes it's just better to be happy that you have what you have... right? We almost didn't get any more Fallout at all. We should all be THANKFUL that someone like Bethesda actually saw fit to give it life... or one of the most unique game universes in the world may well have died out in some office fire... or bankruptcy filing... or both...

Original creators of the Fallout series made this game i.e. Fallout NV plays the way a Fallout game was meant to

Are people implying, that an RPG to be good shouldn't have lots of loot and exploring? That maybe if you throw enough dialog and speech with charisma, it makes up for a complete lack of things to explore, with a map containing entertaining loot with purposeful random locations? Because I played DnD for thousands of hours with a devoted group of people that were very educated intelligent people. The main focus on the games were Role Playing that included, Killer loot, major dungeons and getting to the next level so you could hatch that dragon egg and start training your new dps pet. Correct me if im wrong people, but hat was the quintessential RPG. FNV is lacking in several of the key elements to be called a "true" rpg. I would invite any argument of the facts that FNV is missing "Exploration Value" and "Great loot rewarded by, great Exploration" . If the driving force behind the next generation of RPG's is merely Great speech and char interaction through NPC conversation, then Im out for the duration, to go back to a complete older "RPG".

Not really.
But they went for a game-world that made sense.
Not a game-world stuffed so hard with dungeons and loot that it came out of it's pores.

My post had alot more to it that to just quote one question. I don't have a problem with having "all" of the elements of an RPG, but to say one is Great, but missing 2-3 of the major 5 elements is just incorrect. Just because Fallout 1-2 had great elements, doesn't give the developers a free ride because they were the creators of the series. Plain and simple, they screwed up alot of major parts of the game. So to not agree that the world is lacking on these major elements would be to much of a "fan boy" rating. Its not just my opinion, they didn't do a good job on the exploration and loot value on FNV. Not to mention a series of unacceptable issues. To many invisible walls, blueprint system was already a winner. Adding blueprints would have been a way better idea. Removing most of the crafted weapons made alot of the usless loot......more useless. I could go on and on. Im not saying some of the things they added were not awsome. Not at all.

Once again, I agree. Dungeon diving and exploration are major parts of the RPG genre.

Are people implying there are no "dungeons" with decent loot at the end in New Vegas? Right off the top of my head I can think of a cave with a unique gun at the end of it, and a good chunk of medical supplies.

Well I just took that part because you never hit the enter key...
Seriously, I hate reading these clustered posts and mostly skim through them...

Anyway.
If you like dungeons then they didn't do a good job on the exploration aspect in your opinion.
And loot value, why should half the places or more have good loot?
What realism is there in that?
It makes more sense to get your hopes up to find something good and to be let down with there only being a medkit around.
It's realistic and it slightly balances the game out a little more. (But not enough since we can get 50K caps easily)
And it will also make you way more happy when you actually get some good loot.
There are some Invisible walls, but I have no idea why people complain so much about them, there are some that are in the way but those are few and far between.
There are schematics IIRC.
The bugs are being worked on, they will patch them.

If you love dungeons then this game most likely will disappoint you.
But that doesn't mean that the exploration aspect isn't fun.

And I've played tons of RPG games that didn't have dungeons in them and were kickass games anyway.
Dungeons is not the foundation of RPG games.
Exploration isn't either.

What you're asking, here, is that they FORSAKE the feel of the Mojave Desert... and fill it up with meaningless crap and trite locations... simply to entertain people who aren't satisfied with the myriad locations ALREADY available to discover. I'll admit that, at the current stage, the game is far more -leveled- than I would like. I would much rather be able to go venture into one of the larger settlements and buy some decent gear. I would MUCH rather stumble across one of the wonderfully constructed locations in the wasteland and find some unique weapon which DOESN'T belong to my friends, or require stealing. (This last bit should be RARE, however.)

That aspect of the game -could- use some work... but fortunately, I have faith in the community to resolve these kinds of things.

Call me what you will, but that's the ONE benefit that being a PC gamer has over the console market... and I rather enjoy taking advantage of it. If I don't like something, either I can change it... or I can wait rather patiently until someone ELSE does. Either way, the game is better for it.

And the game is, by no means, LACKING in places to go.

Fallout 3 had more random locations scattered across the expanse of the DC Outskirts. Going there would yield the same five enemies to kill over and over, a number of curious little trinkets, maybe some food and water... and on occasion a unique weapon or some kind of bauble to keep the player busy. The real QUALITY of these locations was that they are UNIQUE. They are all the -same-, as far as the formula goes, but each one tells a kind of STORY about the pre-War world. It isn't the damn trinkets and gizmos we get... and if it is for you, then you might be right in taking a break. Obviously, you've missed the point.

Fallout: New Vegas has taken ever step to ONE UP its predecessor... and in almost all ways, it really does. Barring the leveled lists of armor and weapons and enemies (a la Oblivion) I find it -greatly- more enjoyable. Why? Because each location is, again, meaningful... but it doesn't feel like it was just THROWN in for me to be amused by exploring it. It feels like it BELONGS there. The only time Fallout 3 achieved this, was in the actual urban centers of DC.

Furthermore, I'm not really always WANDERING out in the wastelands for some ancient piece of heroic armor, or a legendary weapon. I follow old high-ways until I bump into a State Patrol station. Or I come up on a convenience store sacked back in 2077, now the home of a couple raiders. My goal is to complete my delivery, and give Benny back his bullet. These places are just a part of the world in which I exist... and sure, they could open up more of them, but I don't care. Modders will do that anyways, and probably with near-equal skill. (CevSteel! Get on that, already!)

I'm sorry, but it just isn't realistic that some ancient powerful weapon is going to be sitting around on the shelf of my local 7/11 for two hundred years... and I sure as hell don't want Obsidian to think that THIS is what all us RPG'ers out here want. Contrary to popular belief, Quality over Quantity is still better than the reverse... even if I would rather have both.

I

There are plenty of places where you can find good loot, and some quite tough areas that are not even marked where you can also get rewarded rather handsomely if you make it through.

Fallout was never about neither exploration or dungeons except in the very lightest RPG sense of the world. That stuff in Fallout 1 is very rudimentary. The focus is much more on character builds and how you can impact the various settlements. New Vegas is much closer to that than F3 in that regard, even though it still has a fair amount of "dungeons" to go through. It was never a dungeoncrawler or "get phat loot" game, it was Fallout 3 that turned the series in that direction because of Bethesda's Elder Scrolls legacy.

Indeed, I found a Remnants Power Helmet in a cave the other day.

Did you have any problems with... The Cazador?
It scared the living hell out of me the first time.

Um, at level 16 you should be seeing all sorts of guns popping up. Are you just exploring the same places over again? because towards the end of my games (i would beat them around level 23 or so) i would go out on a gun hunt just to get guns to sell and walk away with 30,000+ caps worth of weapons. The only problem I had was finding people to sell them to.

Snow globes are in places that you would expect to have a tourist shop.

Just curios, because once I reach Novac and on, its weapons galore for me.